islam is ………

December 9, 2007

Prove It…

Filed under: Islam,Opinion,Religion,Video,Zakaria Botros — WhyIslam @ 7:26 pm
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How can we prove that Islam is the best way of life? All religions speak good things: not to rob, not to steal, etc. What is the difference?

40 Comments »

  1. That was an awesome video mashAllah. Very logical.

    Comment by americanmuslim — December 9, 2007 @ 10:13 pm | Reply

  2. Cannot agree more… very logical indeed yet not many people knew it (including myself)

    Comment by ztuffaha — December 10, 2007 @ 11:05 pm | Reply

  3. me too…. That’s a nice perspective to see how islam is different from other religions in terms of promoting good virtues.

    But I guess I read in the bible (new testament) too that jesus, peace be upon him, said “It is better to rip off your eyes than to look at a woman lustfully”. So I guess there might be some rules or guidelines but definitely not the like ISLAM where there are details and full laws and rules to implement the good virtues and govern people in all aspects.

    Comment by muneeb — December 11, 2007 @ 2:41 am | Reply

  4. Islam unfortunately and apparantly only treats the outside and doesn’t treat the true problem which lies within. Cuting off limbs and capital punishment is just a superficial way that is so unefective and non realistic way to heal Human’s sinfull nature! You can cut off every bad fruit you want and nothing will happen to the tree if the seed is bad. See the problem is more indivdual as in the seed then the community(Tree). Accoring to the Bible, perfection can not be reached on earth. This world will never reach harmony and perfection because of the bad seed(Sin) that exist in it(The World). So What Islam offers is just an ancient theory or system that never has and will never prove effective. Jesus said if one looks at a woman with a lustfull eye has already commited an adultry with her in his heart. It’s not about looking once or twice; its from the inside that bad thoughts, jealousy…evilness are originated and not from human limbs! its the state of the heart and wether you have a clean heart and the looking or stealing or…etc is just the bad fruit!!

    Comment by Jay — January 14, 2008 @ 5:20 pm | Reply

  5. Jay,

    I disagree with you. Islam is the one and only religion which treats the problem within. One of the primary purposes of the Quran is to purify the hearts. What heart would not be pure when it stands before its creator 5 times daily? What heart would not be pure when it fasts to feel the struggle of the poor? What heart would not be pure when it does pilgrimage and feel the true equality? What heart would not be pure when it believes in God and the last day? Give me any problem and I will tell you how Islam treats the source of this problem.

    I think that you missed the point of the clip. It says that Islam gives solutions (protective measures) like giving mandatory charity (pillar of Islam (which is much less than the tax money in the US for example)) to the poor to solve the problem of poverty. Islam understands that no body is perfect but there is a different between being imperfect and being a criminal or harming others. If you do something wrong (lie for example), you should repent to Allah (God) and God loves those who repent. But when you deal with human beings, the problem becomes a problem of rights and duties.

    When you kill someone, you must be fairly judged.

    ISLAM is a way of life with protective measures and laws; so do not look at the laws and forget the protective measures.

    I always enjoy a healthy discussion.

    Comment by ztuffaha — February 3, 2008 @ 3:25 am | Reply

  6. Hi Ztuffaha,
    Thanks for your reply. Looking at things from your prospective, Judaism offers a way and system of life on this earth as well as any other orginized religioen. Look at Israel for example, they have a great democtatic system going and they’re happy with their life even with the threat of their neibours and the prove is that their population keeps increasing!!
    On the other hand, Arabs are divided into more then 15 countries. The Saudies apply the strict Islamic law and i should mention Iran also, which is an Islamic countriy that abides by the laws of Islam! I don’t see paradise in either system and Infact, if the people of those countries were given the freedom to leave today to the any of the European countries or the US, no one will be left in those countries! You don’t see Europeans or American immigrating to the middle east! It’s always Muslims and Arabs that seek immigration to the West and not vice versa!!! What does that prove to you? There is a Huge gap between the Muslim world and the rest of the advanced World in every aspect ,avenue and way! Eventhough the West is portrayed as evil!
    My dear friend, my point is that if Islam really works, it should’ve worked for the Muslims in the first place and mind you, there is an ample of religeous people in the Muslim world and by far a lot more of them then in any part of the World and they all pray 5 times aday and fast one whole month a year. So until Allah answers their prayers and honors their religeous hard work, and until they stop trying to force God’s well by power and might and until they rely on the true God to do what he wants to do without human help and intereference, its really pointless and funny to try to advertise Islam to any body else! thanks

    Comment by Jay — February 20, 2008 @ 4:39 pm | Reply

  7. Hey Jay,

    Glad that you have dropped by again. I am also glad that you dropped your good/bad apples analogy🙂

    Now that we covered how Islam treats the source of problems and also gives protective measures. So we should look at the whole picture.

    Your second point is a fair one which targets the current situation of Muslims and compare the Muslim countries to other non-Muslim countries.

    I honestly find it very misleading and (somewhat dishonest) to look at the Muslim situation in the last 100 years and not look at the situation of Muslims in the last 1400 years. For 1300 hundred years after the prophet peace be upon him passed away. Muslims were the center of civilization. People used to come to Damascus and Baghdad to learn science and philosophy. People used to learn Arabic as it was the dominant language of intellectuals. Where were the Europeans then? Where were the Americans then?

    Jay, for 1300 hundred years, Muslims were the greatest scholars in Mathematics, medicine, architecture, etc. Muslims as well the strongest nation on this planet. In that nation, Jews used to take shelter in the Muslims and everybody (all religions) lived under the Islamic umbrella. Just study Muslim Spain or the Islamic empires and try to be objective.

    If that proved anything, it proved that Islam works.

    You are talking about Israel as an example. A land which is stolen from the Palestinians (I will leave this for a future discussion). Israel which is by the far the greatest theft which current history records. Israel is backup by the strongest nation in the past 50 years which is America. A nuclear nation whose democratic system is no where in the old testament?!?

    Arabs and Muslims are divided by borders which the west have drawn and ruled by some dictators appointed by the west and whose constitutions are either a version of the French or the British constitution. The Kingdom (by the way, there is no Kingdom in Islam) Saudi Arabia is the only nation which is somewhat abiding by Islamic law. As you said, if the doors to migrate to non-muslim countries were open, some would go there but Millions would migrate out of the west to Saudi Arabia and I know.

    Dear Friend,

    Allah in the Quran says:”Allah will not change the situation of people until the people change the situation of themselves”. So prayers by themselves will not work unless supported by actions. you seem to have an idea that religion is magic! Allah wants people to work and this is one of the reasons that we (humans) are on this earth. This is why most of the prophets went through trials and tribulations before being victorious. Read the history of Prophet Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammed (peace be upon all of them).

    Jay,

    What is 100 years in the life of nations or the life of this earth? I find it very hypocritical of you to look at the past 100 years and not even look at the 1300 years before. One of the greatest Muslim historians described the pyramid of nations where each nation will reach its peak and then decline. Next time you pass by a cemetery, stop and think how each one of those people had a life, work, money, family, etc; where are they now?

    Is it very hard for you to believe in the one and true God who is the creator of the heavens and the earths? I really wish you would talk to me about the Quran or about the Sunnah of the prophet (peace be upon him).

    You think it’s funny to advertise to Islam??!? You think it’s funny to advertise to the one God (not human Gods)?!? You think it’s funny to follow the Quran which is the preserved book of God?!?

    Dear Jay,

    I am not here to debate. I am here to discuss. Please have an open mind. Go to the sources of Islam and let’s talk. Leave the ideas which people try to plant in your head and make your own. Have you ever read or heard the Quran? Have you ever asked Muslims about their religions?

    I am talking to you as an mindful person. You never asked yourself if this book was the real book of God? You never asked yourself why Islam is the largest monotheistic religion in the world? or why Islam has the highest number of converts in the western world?

    Check the signs man. Treat this matter scientifically before a day comes where nothing will benefit and excuses will not suffice when you stand before God.

    Thanks

    Comment by ztuffaha — February 29, 2008 @ 11:26 pm | Reply

  8. Hi Ztuffaha,
    Thanks for your comment. I actually never dropped the bad/good apple analogy cause i never used an apple analogy before! It was a fruit analogy and i’m not sure how you got so specific? lol
    Ok i read what wrote and i could see the points that you’re making. You do make sense in a way but believe me, i’m looking at things outside the box. If you’re locked in, you won’t be able to see other people’s prospectives. It’s very simple and easy to understand. I’ll give it a shot.
    Three major religeons. Judaism, Chrstianity and Islam in order. Christianity believe in Judaism and doesn’t deny its validity. Actually Jesus said i have come to fullfill and complete the law and not oppose it. The law being what was reveald to Mosses and the prophets in the old tastement. The Bible comprises of the Old tastement and the new tastement. God’s word never changes and no one can dare to alter or distort it. It’s very important to agree on that (foundaion)otherwise, we’re up for more discussion🙂
    Seriously, how could humans change God’s word while God watching!? Christians believe that no man can change God’s word. God has/will always protect/ed his word. It is unchanging and it’s totally unacceptable to think that man can alter God’s word wellingly.
    I will only accept the unfathamable assumption that such a fallacy took place sometime in history somehow for the sake of discussion. The details of it are abscent,grim, mysterious and only based on a hint without a motive in the Quran!
    Then the logical question that follows would be why did God wait 600 or 700 hundred years to reveal the truth about the distortion assuming he allowed such horrendous thing to happen in the first place!! Why/when did the Christias and Jews agree to distort God’s word together? and to whose advantage and where all the good people go? Any originals left? Why all this confusion? Billions have lived and died since and were all deceieved…So according to the Islamic scenario, Allah is to blame for all the divissions, confusion (I mean major) and deception. Allah is also to blame for all the souls that will burn in hell as a result of his own doing. Let’s be serious here, the alleged meeting between and the Jews and Christians never took place. Just not enough evidence, not enough motive, and not good enough reason. What would be the price for loosing your eternity for such a conspiricy and how could you change the old tastement and the new tastement to such perfection and get rid of all the books existed at that time and many and many had to had been on it. It’s insane to believe that.
    Moreover, the true God can not be that cruel to the closest desciples not to even mention any thing to them abou the substitue incase of crusifiction story and instead they all gave their lives away for the fact that Jesus died and rose up on the third day. And now the crusifiction issue, was it also among the topics that the Christian leaders agreed to make up without the jews permission!!? You need to figure Jesus Christ issue out in the Quran first before you move on. You can’t skip those questions because you know how big Christianity is. And it can’t be that all were made to be deceived unless that is exactly one of Allah’s attributes or names or is it?? I know in the Bible, God is not a deceiver for sure…
    So back to my original thought, Islam does approve of Christianity and Judaism but doesn’t validate either one or at least what is believed to be Christianity and Judaism nowadays!! Christianity on the other hand believe what was revealed earlier and validates it which goes in line with the concept that God doesn’t change his word…or allow it to be changed…cause simply he doesn’t contradict himself…
    Thank you

    Comment by JAY — March 4, 2008 @ 9:31 pm | Reply

  9. Dear Ztuffaha,

    You said:
    I am not here to debate. I am here to discuss. Please have an open mind. Go to the sources of Islam and let’s talk. Leave the ideas which people try to plant in your head and make your own. Have you ever read or heard the Quran? Have you ever asked Muslims about their religions?

    Answer:
    Yes i have read most of the Quran and it claims it’s a miracle! The book is written in Arabic to Arabic speaking audience. It means nothing to non Arabs. The Chineese have their own miraculous writtings and arts that no Chinese/non Chineese can replicate and compe up with. The Spaniards have their own philosophers and poets that wrote majestic pieces that are unmatched and unique. Motzart’s Music was considered cellestial and a gift from God by other Great musicians. To claim that the true God chose the Arabic language to manifest how great of a writter he is, sounds so silly and more like a joke to any neautral normal, intelligent decent human being. How is a swedish ‘s supposed to see or understand such a miracle? or a korean or a Japaneese…or..etc even Arabs don’t all agree with that.
    A miracle should not have restrictions as to who can acknowledge or recognize it or who can not. When a dead man rises, even a blind man will be astonished. When you part the red sea, so people can walk through one bank to another, an Escimo as well as any other human being will wonder and be shocked at what he is witnessing. Regardless of your race , color, language,a miracle should marvel you and anybodybody else that witnessed it.
    I also found the Quran to be filled with conradictions and repeitions. The Jews and Christians? Are they friends or enemies? which verses to abide by? The non believers? Are they to be killed or left alone? Homosexual, should they punish or quarantined or left alone? Adulterers(Females)? mercy or stoning?Adulterers(Men get away clean)? Adult breast feeding? Why are the non believers subject to taxes (Financial hardship..why?) if they choose to keep their faith and live with the Muslims? The invasions of the prophet? were they forcefull or peacefull? the Islamic Empire’s expansion? Was it by the power of the sword or by convencing people to surrender and give up their land? Are women less mentally capable than men? Is that true? Why is a woman source of evil and have to cover up all the way so man won’t lust? She has to suffer and suffocate(Summer time) to keep men from looking (Bad/Good fruit analogy)…

    You said:
    I am talking to you as an mindful person. You never asked yourself if this book was the real book of God? You never asked yourself why Islam is the largest monotheistic religion in the world? or why Islam has the highest number of converts in the western world?

    I say:

    Did you ask yourself why does the West(Satan, evil..) allow all these converst to convert peacefully? can you say the same about the Islamic world? Did you ask yourself what if Muslims convert, what would happen to them in any Islamic country? Doesn’t that give you a hint? Christianity doesn’t need to be defended, God is running the show. Did you ask yourself why doesn’t Islam allow its peopel to ask questions that they have no answer for? or why aren’t the Muslims allowed to read the Bible or even block it from some contries? Did you ask yourself why aren’t there Churches in Saudia Arabia?

    You said and i say Amen:

    Check the signs man. Treat this matter scientifically before a day comes where nothing will benefit and excuses will not suffice when you stand before God.

    peace and thank you

    Comment by JAY — March 5, 2008 @ 7:17 pm | Reply

  10. This is response to your first post.
    ——
    Dear Jay,
    Sorry for the very delayed reply. I was just very busy and somewhat lazy. I would like to continue this discussion. I would like to thank you about reminding me that I need to put myself in the mindset of others to understand them.
    First off, I disagree with you in saying that Judaism and Christianity validate one another. According to what I know of Christianity, the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Thus, making the Jews with Muslims residents of eternal hell because they do not believe in Jesus as the savior God. How can you say that it validates it? How can you say that when Jews (who killed your God) and who say that that your God is nothing but a person (denying any kind of prophecy and that his mother was married… let alone the Jewish sects who say bad things about Jesus and his virtuous mother).
    God’s word never changes. But people do change what is written in their books. Somehow you’re saying that God’s words are never changed but they are incomplete! The truth is that God’s word never changes but people can change what is written in those books. It’s on us to protect these books. Many prophets came before Moses (peace be upon him) like Adam, Noah, David, etc. Each prophet would come with revelation from God. People have changed their ways and in some cases have changed what is written in their books.
    Jay,
    You say: how would God allow that?? Muslims believe that God oversees everything but God gave humans the free will and the free choice to do what’s good and what’s evil. Hence we will be accounted for every deed which we do. People do blasphemy against God and his prophets but this does not mean that God likes it; it’s a free choice which comes with a free will and that will make the test fair (the test being this life).
    As for the bible being changed, Muslims attitude towards that are what the prophet said: we do not say it’s right and we do not say it’s wrong. But we know that it has been changed.
    Now this is not my own sayings, this is a fact. You’re reading the English bible (assuming it’s King James version) and you’re saying it’s the word of God! Did Jesus (p.b.u.h) receive it in English? Where the bible in Aaramaic (language of Jesus peace be upon him)? These are not my words… these are the words of your fellow Christian scholars.
    And you say that how and why would the Christians and the Jews agree on changing it? (First of, the Jews do not care about the New Testament). For the record, what happened to the Christians after Jesus (p.b.u.h)? They were oppressed, killed and massacred by the Romans and the words of God were scattered thereafter. The Christians cannot agree on the exact characters of the authors of the bible. John who? Luke who? Mathew who? The Christian scholars say that there are hundreds of Manuscripts found not two are the same!
    The Old Testament for one was written 1300 hundred years after Moses according to the Jewish scholars.
    Now it’s a fact that the bible (and not the word of God) have changed. You have to know this for a fact when you hold your copy of the bible (assuming that none of the above applies), hope that the translators did a good job and that the Roman Catholics have been wrong in adding 6 chapters to the book. Listen to any debate of Ahmed Deadat, you will find that the Christian debaters go back to the ‘hallauuuuyyyyyaa’ part without responding by any rational logic.
    To correct your thoughts and ideas about Islam, Islam means oneness of God (not father, son and Holy Ghost). Islam believes that all prophets are Muslims and they in the highest degree in heaven. Islam believes that the followers of these prophets who have followed their teachings are also in heaven. Islam believes that Islam and the Quran is the last and final word of God. Anyone who receives the message in its purity and neglect it, will be in hell. Islam believes that if anybody died before receiving the correct message, then we cannot make a judgment on him and Allah is the most just and the most merciful.
    So much for saying that Judaism and Christianity complete each other each other when Judasim does not believe in your god prophet or in your book and when you believe that they would end up in hell.

    Comment by WhyIslam — May 1, 2008 @ 8:15 pm | Reply

  11. Dear WhyIslam,
    Thanks for you response and the time you’ve taken to read my posts!
    First of all, i never said in either of my posts that Judaism validates Christianity eventhough it does partially but did it even dawn on you that only a Christian believes in God’s prophets and their revelalations together which he happens to inludes in his book. A muslim only believes in messenger’s and prophet’s names but thinks that their revelations have been distorted! A muslim believes in Jesus, Moses and David by name only but has no clue what/where/why their books/massages are and what happened to them! and when?! Very confusing and so un-Godlylike way of doing things, one MUST admit!

    So according to your explanation and theory, God’s word could be changed/distorted by humans and therefore the Quran also falls under that same criteria because humans preserved it over 1400 years starting from days of the dessert of Arabia. Since humans are erroneous and prone to making mistakes and commiting errors therfore, the Quran is no different than any other divine revealation!

    I as a christian believe in Moses, Abraham, David and i believe in their Books and infact their Books are part of my Book which goes in line with the fact that God’s massage is unchanging and complete.
    There are 2.2 billion Christians nowadays (30% of world population) that believe in the Bible which is translated into thousands of languages. This Bible was written over a period of 1600 years by more than 66 writers who lived in different era’s from different nationalities, backgrounds, languages and cultures!and yet is still the ONE book which speaks about one person and remains to be the number one book and the most popular book in the world! Isn’t that a miracle?
    In the Old tastement, God called his people chis children and in the New tastement we became his children and he our father. In the Quran, you’re a distant SLAVE!!!!what a diffrence! There is no comaparison there my friend. I’m inviting to be a son while you are trying to drag me down to be a slave!

    Christianity validates all God’s prophets and their books and offers the ultimate solution and the ultimate massge and the Qurans stands alone!!

    Thanks man!

    Comment by JAY — May 8, 2008 @ 8:11 pm | Reply

  12. Dear WhyIslam,

    I hope i’m making sense in my writtings and i’m thankfull for the opportunity to post my comments.I hope these comments get read and i ‘d love to hear answers to my many questions. Another problem i have with Islam is the Prophet of Islam whom according Islamic resourses and books, had relationships with demons and power of magic. He was under the influence of magic for a period that exeeded a year during his prophethood years in which parts of the Quran were being revealed! Moreover, he once had to be corrected and rebuked by God’s angel for letting Satan speak through him some satanic verses as being from God and those same verses could be found in the Quran today!!
    He also had a demon that was a companion of his whom according to the prophet himself, had accepted Islam and became a Muslim!! The demon became muslim and made a deal with the prophet!! If you doubt any of these stries and facts;please dont hesitate, i will post where these stories are found from Islamic resources and the Quran itself…The prophet used to have seizures everytime he would confront God’s angel whom God sent to reveal the Quran to the Prophet!! Seizures, shivering and sweating when confronting God’s messenger?? That is rather odd reaction!!! I wonder then how would confronting demons be any different???

    Thanks,

    JAY

    Comment by JAY — June 17, 2008 @ 11:58 pm | Reply

  13. Dear Jay,

    Sorry for being very late in replying, I have doing some traveling. After reading your replay, honestly, I believe that between us and you is a small difference. However, this difference is the foundation.

    Let me break the reply into points:

    Does Christianity validate previous religions?

    No other prophet or nation before Jesus has believed in trinity (Father, begotten Son and Holy Ghost). No nation on earth has believed in the trinity or even had such a concept before Jesus peace be upon him. Judaism says that Jesus was merely a man (not a prophet) while you say he’s the son of God.
    Does Islam validate previous religions?

    We believe and know that all prophets and messengers (starting from Adam to Muhammed) came with one message: Worship one GOD: no son and no partners (the concept of trinity is only known to Christians after the 3rd century BC). But we believe that humans have changed their ways and this is why prophets and messengers came with the original message to remind people to worship the one and only God.

    Since I said that humans have tampered with their books, you are correct in assuming that since humans are prone to errors, each and every book’s authenticity should be examined even the Quran. So let us do that.
    How many variations of the Quran are there? One (from Japan to America and from pole to pole) with the same exact letters and words.

    How many variations of the bible are there? How many transcripts? You even said that you have 66 writers? The bible is at best a compilation of what people heard about Jesus peace be upon him.

    The very early transcripts of the Quran are preserved and are available. People do change their ways and a reminder is needed. We believe that God has protected the Quran and the Quran itself is the proof.

    God could have revealed the entire laws and creed at the beginning of humanity and that’s it. But he didn’t and we do not question God’s actions. Our role as humans is to investigate and seek the truth and God does not burden one soul more than it can handle.

    Jay,

    I too believe that in Moses, Abraham, David and Ibraham and I believe that God’s word is unchanging and complete in terms of the creed and the message. I never said that Jesus’s original message is incomplete; we say that it has been changed and tampered with. Jesus message is to worship the one and only God (the father). There are many statements in the bible supporting this.

    Even though you say that God’s word is complete; between your lines, you say that God’s message is incomplete! How else wouldn’t anybody before Jesus peace be upon him say that that God has a son and that the only way to heaven is through believing in him as a savior?

    Jay,

    I think you are incorrect in saying that there’s one bible: are you talking about the bible of the Roman Catholic or the Orthodox? (They are different). Which variation of King James are you adopting? Or are we talking about the new Standard Version backed by all the major nominations (see here http://www.chick.com/information/bibleversions/comparison.asp).

    Since you started with Statistics, I tell you that Islam is the largest growing religion. It’s increasing by the day and it will increase. One in every 5 people is a Muslim and all the MUSLIMS have ONE BOOK and pray TOWARDS one PLACE.

    God and Humans?

    God is our creator and we are his servants (not distant though). In calling us servants of God, it’s a great honor. In Islam, God created Adam and ordered the angels to bow for him. God created and rewarded humans with the free will and the ability to read and write and judge. He has put the whole universe at our service.

    Let us for a second, leave this discussion and sidetrack. Could you answer the following questions?
    What happens if you do not study for an exam or do not work hard at work? If you are study and prepare, you pass the exam. If you slack off and do not take the exam seriously, you fail. Simple… but when it comes that each and every person is responsible for his/her actions in the eyes of God, then we say that somebody died for our sins…

    As religion should be simple, if you are alone on an island, what would be easier for you to believe (religion and belief is part of our instincts)?

    “God the creator of the heavens and the earths is the most high; he is unique and all sufficient” or
    “The father, the son and the holy ghost. The father is God, the son is God and the Holy Ghost is God but they are not 3 Gods but one God and that the son has died for your sins”?

    I do not agree that Christianity validates all prophets. How can it validate Judaism when it says that Jesus was not even a prophet? In contrary, the Quran validates all the prophets and messengers in the belief of one God and the bible stands alone in the main concept of trinity.

    Jesus in Islam is a human being. He is one of the best to walk this earth. He has a miraculous birth and he could heal the blind and the leopard and give life to the dead (WITH GOD’S PERMISSION). He was not crucified but he was lifted to the heavens and he would return.

    Honestly, I believe that between us and you is a small difference.

    Thanks Jay

    Comment by WhyIslam — September 19, 2008 @ 1:19 pm | Reply

  14. Dear whyislam, what is the proof that Mohammad was recieving revelations from God and not from the Devil? Who was the witness? or was Mohamad himself the only witness? Only wondering!

    Comment by JAY — October 11, 2008 @ 1:10 am | Reply

  15. “Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
    The Beneficent, the Merciful
    Owner and the king of the Day of Judgment
    (Oh God) Thee (alone) we worship and Thee (alone) we ask for help
    Show us and guide us to the straight path,
    The path of those whom Thou hast favoured. Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.1:1-1:7”

    Thanks for your question Jay. The above is the first chapter in the Quran. Muslims read this chapter many times daily (in their prayers). Could this be an idea from the devil?

    The Quran in itself is a proof that it was only revealed from the Lord. Allah describes himself in the Quran as:

    “Allah! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal. Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh Him. Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth. Who is he that intercedeth with Him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them and that which is behind them, while they encompass nothing of His knowledge save what He will. His throne includeth the heavens and the earth, and He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. 2:255”

    Another verse from the Quran:

    “Thy Lord hath decreed, that ye worship none save Him, and (that ye show) kindness to parents. If one of them or both of them attain old age with thee, say not “Fie” unto them nor repulse them, but speak unto them a gracious word.
    And lower unto them the wing of submission through mercy, and say: My Lord! Have mercy on them both as they did care for me when I was little.
    Your Lord is best aware of what is in your minds. If ye are righteous, then lo! He was ever Forgiving unto those who turn (unto Him).
    Give the kinsman his due, and the needy, and the wayfarer, and squander not (thy wealth) in wantonness. 17:23-17:26″

    So the Quran in itself is a proof for its source.

    No other man has been better studied than prophet Muhammed. You can read about him and his life. You can find posts:

    https://whyislam.wordpress.com/2008/10/06/ebook-the-sealed-nectar/
    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6549530
    https://whyislam.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/what-the-west-needs-to-know-about-islam/

    I advice that you have a read in the Quran and I enjoy our discussions and I am open to anymore discussions God willing. I can send you a copy of the translated meaning of the Quran too for our references.

    Comment by WhyIslam — October 11, 2008 @ 7:27 pm | Reply

  16. Dear WhyIslam, Thanks for taking the time to answer my many questions. I’m just trying to make sense and make sure things add up correctly.
    According to the Islamic doctrine, two witnesses are required in the court of law to validate an incident or an event or..etc. Are you saying that the Islamic religion is based on the testimony of it’s prophet alone to the divine inspiration/revelation that used to come down upon him in the form of an angel in some cave out in the wilderness? Only the prophet by himself thought he was recieving divine revelations and there are no other witnesses except the Quran which ofcourse calls itself a divine book? That’s very interesting thou?!

    On the other hand, there are numerous prophesies about Jesus Christ in the Old tastement and about his comming. Infact, the Jews are still waiting for his first coming. The New Tastement is full of witnesses about the divinity of Jesus, the Angel, his mother, the three wisemen,john the babtist, the holly spirit, multitiude of people, the miracles, history, Joseph and even the Quran gives its version about Christ!!..You really need to investigate this matter seriously, the whole religion is based on one person’s story and testimony to himself and there are no other witnesses! The only testimony we have as Christians is what Jesus warned about, becarefull there shall be many false prophets after me.
    You can’t take the robber’s testimony in a robery into account, can you really?

    As to the verse you quoted from the first chapter of the Quran, i see that to be very offensive to the Christians and the jews as it refers to them as having gone astray and having earned God’s anger/wrath and it seperates humans into categories. When every Muslim reads that daily, what do you think does that promote!? Does that sound Godly in your opinion? In Christianity we are all sinners and we get saved by faith and grace and not because we’re any better then anybody else and God loves everybody. He loves the sinner but hates only his sin!!

    Thanks,

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — October 12, 2008 @ 1:16 am | Reply

  17. This is a quick reply to your last paragraph Jay,

    Where did you read Jews and Christians? The Quran says exactly (and this is what Muslims read daily): “The path of those whom Thou hast favoured. Not (the path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray”

    I do not see it mentioning Jews or Christians! The statement is valid for Muslims and non-Muslims. If you try to to abandon what is right (regardless of who you are), then this verse applies to you.

    Yes, it sounds very Godly in my opinion that the person asks God to guide him to the straight path and prevent him from going astray or earn God’s wrath. You don’t think so?

    In Islam, a Muslim is not better than any other person except by God’s favor upon us. If it wasn’t for God’s favor, we might have been worse sinners. So being a Muslim is not level above other people; on the contrary, it’s a source of humbleness.

    Comment by WhyIslam — October 13, 2008 @ 12:41 am | Reply

  18. Dear WhyIslam,

    I heard some Islamic scholar explaining that verse that way! but again the Quran is no stranger on calling non muslims names like it did with the Jews and christians in calling them dogs, apes and pigs. I’m not sure what would the Quran call the other Worldreligions that don’t even belive in God or the ones who have a totally different set of beleifs like pagans, seculars, hindus, budists…etc

    Thanks,

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — October 13, 2008 @ 11:29 pm | Reply

  19. Jay,

    I believe that you are mis-informed… Here is my challenge to you… Bring me those verses where the Quran says that all Christians or Jews are dogs or pigs! I know you will not be able to.. because they do not exist..

    On the contrary, the Quran says: “Say: O People of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Come to an agreement between us and you: that we shall worship none but Allah, and that we shall ascribe no partner unto Him, and that none of us shall take others for lords beside Allah. And if they turn away, then say: Bear witness that we are they who have surrendered (unto Him). 3:64″

    The Quran also says: ” … And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe (to be) those who say: Lo! We are Christians. That is because there are among them priests and monks, and because they are not proud. (82) When they listen to that which hath been revealed unto the messengers, thou seest their eyes overflow with tears because of their recognition of the Truth. They say: Our Lord, we believe. Inscribe us as among the witnesses. (83). 4:82,83″

    After those two verses, how can the Quran call people pigs and dogs! I am still willing to send you a copy of the translated meaning of the Quran for our references.

    Do not get me wrong. The Quran says that you have disbelieved by associating partners with God (saying that God is one of three) but the Quran talks to you logically.

    Comment by WhyIslam — October 14, 2008 @ 12:56 am | Reply

  20. Dear WhyIslam,
    This is a new Christianised Islam that you ‘re advertising which suger quotes the harsh islamic teachings and try make it suitable to this time we’re living in.
    I wish the Quran didn’t just stop at just calling a group of Jews monkeys and pigs, even much worse, the Quran incited violence against any non muslim and not only that, Sourat Al touba, is full of verses that are called verses of the sword which are direct orders from ALAh to kill and break the necks and limbs of non Muslims wherever they’re found; In state of war or no war up until Islam is the dominant religion. This is exactly the case now. By the way, you cant sugar quote any of the sword verses, they all obrigate /cancell any commands that called for peace that came prior to the swrod verses! The Quran is full of contradictions and what muslims did to resolve that problem is one contradiction cancells another!! So the latter cancels the former. Unfortuantely the latter verses that were revealed to Mohamad are full of violence and direct orders to kill and destroy and thats what the suicide bombers and Osmama ben laden followers are exactly doing. Thats what Mohhamad did when he lead his army to destroy and kill the non believers by the power of sword which is the slogan or the emblem of Islam nowadays (See the Saudi flag)

    My friend, there is no religious violence in the history of the world that was associated with verses like the Islamic violence and have witnessed recently and will continue to witness. Name me a religion that calls for killing of humans who its followers actually apply its orders and teachings nowadays and go out and kill and bomb quoting verses from the their sacred book except for Islam on TV?
    The famous director in Holland got assasinated in Amsterdam for voicing his openion, Sulman Rushdie, Million dollars ransom on his head. The caracatures in Denamark which incited violent acts from Muslim all over the World. The Pope ‘s speach which the Muslims across the World proved it to be right by their barberic reactions and natural instinct. Can you critisise Islam or Mohamad, you will be killed!!Conversion and leaving Islam is punishable by death and is not allowed and thats why no one converts in any Muslim country unless he is welling die. Homosexuality is punishable by stoning till death. Stealing is punishable by cutting the hand that did the stealing. Chopping heads is still practiced in saudia Arabia according to the Islamic law? A man can marry up to four wives and a wife can not marry or divorce. A woman is considered a possesion and she is described donkey, and some other animals by the prophet himself. Women are considered weak and less capable then men and their testimony in the court of law is half of the men. they inherit les then men and are considered inferiors to men in every aspect! A woman is Islam should cover up completely revealing only her eyes so a man wont lust! A man on the other hand can wear shorts and t shirts and jeans and show his whole face!!She is made for him and she is considered evil!!!There are a million things that i will bring up and things that are even worse.
    Do you honestly believe that is a Godly religion? Read about Jesus Christ and his love message and you will feel the truth in your heart. The difference is gynormous between the two. Make a comparison between the life of Jesus Christ and the life of mohammad and that should make you realize the truth clearly.

    I’m actually still waiting for you to see if you could produce a witness who witnessed that the angel who kept on appearing to Mahhamd in the cave was actually from God. According to the Islamic law, two men or four women or one man and two women. Mohamad is not included ofcourse.

    Thank you!

    Comment by JAY — October 24, 2008 @ 4:07 am | Reply

  21. Jay,

    Somehow it seems to me that you go and listen to some anti-Islam propaganda on youtube or read it on some online group and then try to send me this information. What bothers me is that you are stating these information as if they are absolute facts.

    Jay,

    Really, what do you know about Islam? What do you know about the Quran? What do you know about the traditions of the prophet peace be upon him? What do you know about his life and history… apparently, you are not fully informed.

    My advice to you: Do not let people make your mind for you.

    From the very beginning, I sensed that you are a logical person and I still do. I asked you before to send me the verses which says that the Quran calls Jews and Christians monkeys and pigs and you didn’t come through. On the contrary, you say: “I wish the Quran didn’t just stop at just calling a group of Jews monkeys and pigs” as if it’s an absolute fact. I do wish to talk about this scientifically.

    I believe in the Quran (the whole book) as the word of God; believe you me, I will not change or polish my religion for you or for any body else and have no worries, I will respond to these claims to my best ability.

    To wrap up our discussion, we have concluded the following from our previous discussion:

    1. You said: Islam cuts limbs rather than solving problems: I have refuted this point in our first replies
    2. Muslims are weak nowadays; but Muslims have been the leaders of the world for a long time
    3. Contrary to what you have said, Christianity is not validated by any other religion nor it validates any. No other religion before Christianity have said that you have 3 and the 3 is 1
    4. There is one Quran but there are numerous versions of the bible
    5. Quran is form God and the contents of the Quran is the proof

    Now there are three new points which I need to comment on (here or in later posts):

    1. Witnesses and the Quran
    2. Terrorism under the name of Islam.
    3. Terrorism in other religions

    Dear Sir,

    Prophet Muhammed have never started a war! The Quran was revealed to him and he was responsible to apply it… but where is the terrorism in here..

    In Islam there are 4 categories (in terms of location and relationship with Muslims), I will describe the 4 categories.

    1. In the state of Islam, where you are living in the Muslim land and Islam is the law of this country, then all non-Muslims SHOULD pay the jezya (special tax). Just like we have to pay taxes in America. The special tax is much lesser than the taxes here for example. For that, Muslims HAVE to protect the non-Muslims and the non-Muslims do not have to join the army or do any civil service. If they do not pay it, they are fought (just like the person who doesn’t pay tax will go to jail). In a Muslim land, there shall be NO other constitution except for ISLAM. Anyone who tries to have their own constitution, will be fought (imagine people coming with a new constitution in America!!!). The verse of the sword is in this category. All Arabia was a Muslim land; the majority were Muslims and every tribe came and declared loyalty to the prophet (voluntarily). Once, it’s a Muslim land, there shall be no other constitution and if a constitution appears then it’s the SWORD (or any weapon). How different is this from any country!!!!!

    2. In a state of war with Muslims, we fight the people who fight us and we will not transgress. However, as the prophet said: “we do not cut a tree, kill women or children or men in their places of worship”. Muslims are even merciful in the context of war!! Compare this with the past atrocities of the church which the church have apologized for!!!

    3. The third stats is when you are in state of peace with Muslims: a state of peace with Muslims is that you allow the message of Islam to be propagated through to the people. Then as long as Islam can be propagated across and people are free to join Muslims then it shall continue this way.

    4. You are in neither a state of war or a state of peace with Muslims. Then Muslims will fight for people’s right to hear the message of Islam.

    Now, you come and tell me the most absurd statement saying that the verse of sword abrogate all the statements in the Quran? WHO said so? some person on youtube? What are your references? The point of ‘using references’ is that both parties agree on. My references are the Quran and the correct traditions of the prophet peace be upon him.

    A person who have never read the Quran and who have never read the traditions of the prophets and who have never read any Muslim history!! If Islam is a religion of terror, then there are more than 7 million Muslims in the US. Where are the crimes? How many times do you see Muslims on Cops or any crime show?!?

    Then you come and present me with some individual acts where someone was killed for saying things about Islam! Do you think that this argument holds any ground? Do you like me to mention the sex crimes by priests and sticking them to Christianity and sex and incest stories from the bible? How about shootings? How about the Church’s past atrocities and terrorism (all of which were supported with verses from the bible and the popes)? I wouldn’t do that and you shouldn’t do that either; it’s not useful or logical. You do realize that if we open such discussion, Christianity will beat Islam by a mile!

    And then you come and say that you cannot criticize Islam or prophet Muhammad. Have you no seen any debates? I have posted some debates here about the Quran and about prophet Muhammad and I have also posted some of Sh. Deedat’s videos. But (as you must know), there is a difference between logical discussion and just plain obscenity.

    Jay,

    What would you do if someone shouted obscenities at someone you love? We love our prophet more than we love ourselves and he deserves to be loved. But if you are here to discuss and talk (logically, scientifically and respectfully), then all Muslims will happily talk to you.

    Us discussing this issue on this blog is an example of such discussion. Some people would send me obscene emails and I will delete them but a discussion I encourage.

    Put yourself in the shoes of the Muslims, what would you do if someone attacked or degraded someone you truly love? and what did the Muslims (as a whole) do, they did the following:

    1. Boycott all Danish products
    2. Go out in rallies to support our prophet (rallies happened in millions and millions)
    3. They started many websites to introduce people to Islam (see https://whyislam.wordpress.com/2008/09/07/come-meet-our-prophet/)
    4. They condemned such actions and asked for them to be put on trial

    The attacks on our prophet were biased, unscientific and disrespectful. In some situations, things went out of hand (as with any rallies) and a small group decided to go their own way.

    But compare the individual instances against the millions and millions of Muslims and you would find the percentage insignificant.

    Listen to what some of the western scholars say about him: https://whyislam.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/what-the-west-needs-to-know-about-islam/

    Jay,

    Jumping to the next comment you threw in your comment carelessly about women in Islam.

    A woman is equal to a man in Islam. They have the same rights before their lord. Muslim women must cover the full body except HANDS and FACE on FOREIGN men. However, within her family such as(husband, children, brothers, sisters, parents, nephews, nieces, aunts, uncles, etc), she doesn’t need to cover. What is so unfair about that! Muslim women are not for show. Look up some pictures of the how people think the virgin Mary looked like; she is wearing a veil! Next time you walk down the street and you see a Muslim woman wearing the veil, ask her why? She will tell you that no man has forced her to do so… Muslim women can be engineers, doctors and teachers. Did you know that there are medical colleges for women in Saudi Arabia for example?

    In the matter of economy a female’s testimony is half of the male’s, but did you know that in other aspects, the women testimony will take higher precedence than men? did you know that in the matter of religion, the testimony of a woman is equal to that of the man!? ofcourse not, and I don’t think that you have bothered to ask. How come that the largest number of Muslim converts are women!

    In inheritance, there are many instances where the females portion will much higher of the male portion. Literary many!! ofcourse you do not know. Did you know that in Islam, the man is responsible to spend on his wife and the wife doesn’t need to spend anything (if she works, her money is hers).

    Women are not evil in Islam (I think that you started confusing the old Christianity with Islam), women are half of the society, they are our mothers and daughters and sisters! The prophet said: “paradise is under the feet of your mother”; is ‘a mother’ not a woman? The prophet peace be upon him said: “women are the sisters of women”. I do not like to put you on the spot, but please bring me the place where the prophet says that women are donkeys!!!

    Now, all of what I have discussed is their in the Quran or the correct traditions of the prophet, please look at the full context to get the full picture.

    If you truly want me to comment on all the points that you have mentioned, then you would list them and provide evidence and proof for you are listings. But apparently, you seem not to want to discuss but just throw around some false accusations.

    Jesus Christ peace be upon him is my prophet so you do not need to tell me about his life. He is not God or the son of God; he is not 1 of 3 and all 3. He is a man, a prophet and one of the best human beings to ever walk this earth. So do not tell me about him, you just need to educate yourself on the life of prophet Muhammed peace be upon them. (I have actually added a new video about Jesus Peace be upon him in Islam: please view it: https://whyislam.wordpress.com/2008/11/06/the-muslim-jesus/)

    I advise myself and you to be objective… my point in this reply, is to show you that your sources are not giving you the full picture.

    Looking forward to continuing this discussion.

    Thanks,

    Comment by WhyIslam — November 1, 2008 @ 12:38 pm | Reply

  22. Mr WhyIslam,

    Here is the verse from the Quran that calls group of jews swines and appes which you never admitted it absolutely existed knowingly or unknowingly!
    “And well you knew those among you who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. We said to them ‘Be ye apes, despised and rejected.’” (2:65)

    1. With all due respect, you didnt refute cutting limbs according to Islam! How did you refue that? it is clearly a babaric method adopted by Islamists nowadays (Saudia Arabia, Iran, Indonesia).

    2. Muslims are weak and evidently Alah is not helping their case. He is not listening to their prayers eventhough they are the most praying nation. 1.2 billion muslims pray 5 times a day and fast one full month a year. How more religious one nation could be? Why isn’t Allah doing something?

    3. Christianity and Judaism validate each other. The Bible comprises of the Torah and the new Tatstement. The Torah has hundreds of prophesies about Jesus and his virgin birth and his comming as a savior to the World. Almost all of the prophesies in the Torah have been fullfilled in the New tatstement to the slightest details. The triune God is the same in the Old tastement (God said let US make man in OUR image, the holy spirit and the Lord’s Angel are apparent throught the Torah…etc)(Genesis ch.1) and the new tastement. There are references back and forth in both Books. The Jews nowadays are waiting for Jesus Christ and the Christians are wating for Jesus to come again. Where does Muhamad or Islam fit in either Christianity or Judaism?
    On the other hand, the Quran stands alone and there are even no witneses to its validity except for it’s inventor and his story about the cave and the angel that used to appear to him alone in that cave over 20 years in the middle of the wilderness. There are no positive references to the Quran or Mohamad in neither the Torah(Old Tstement of the Bible) nor The New tastement. Again who validates who here?

    4. Please check the Sheaa version of the Quran and Sunna version. There are differences and it’s a known issue among muslims. You know that Othman Ibn Afan burned all the different versions of the Quran and left one during his time. Are you fammiliar with this story? I will tell you exactlywhere to find that incident in later posting. My question here is with all the different versions of our Bible, could you mention one major difference between all these different versions of the Bible? for instance is jesus Chineese in any of these versions and not a Jew? Just an example or did he die hung in one of these different version rather then crusified? Does any of these books call for violence and mis quote Jesus in any of the incidents throughout his life? If there is a major difference, iwould definately like to know.

    5. The content of the Quran is the proof it is from God! Then the World needs to learn Arabic to understand it and it’s not fair and not sensible that Alah sent a Book in one language and expects everybody to learn that language. The word of God is for every body and thats why it is translated to all languages of the World and it’s meaning remains the same for all to learn , understand and pray. That is an additional proof that the Bible is from God.

    Thanks,

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — November 9, 2008 @ 3:20 am | Reply

  23. Jay,

    In the previous post, my main goal was to show you that you cannot get your source of information from one side. I hope I got my point across.

    I was actually anticipating that you would write this verse and I was hoping that you would find how this verse is irrelevant to your point. You said: Quran calls Jews and Christians apes and monkeys; you said in the very general sense. You clearly meant that the Quran calls any Jew or any Christian an Ape. This is clearly not the case. This verse is saying: “among you”; so not Jews all apes but from AMONGST the Jews (people who transgressed) are transformed into apes. Do you see the difference?

    Second point: The Quran of Sunna and Sheea is the same. Look it up.

    You say Islam cuts limbs without curing the source of the problem: see comment number 5

    You say Muslims are weak because God is not accepting their prayers: REALLY! This is why all prophets and messengers went through trials and tribulations? because God did not accept their prayers? See comment number 7. You even said that you saw my point.

    You say: Christianity validates Judaism and vice verse: also reeaaalllyyyy? Christianity stands alone in believing in the trinity. No other religion had such a thing. Judaism say that Jesus was a regular man and so was his method who was married (let alone the sects who say bad things about them). Christians believe that Jews go to hell. Great validation!

    You say that Othman Bin Affan did burn the copies of the Quran. That is a valid point of discussion; I have actually discussed this in a previous post (I wrote it in Arabic), but I will translate it soon. The short answer is: Othman Bin Affan has compiled the Quran with the consensus of the companions of teh prophet peace be upon him. The compilation of Othman matched the comilation of Abu Bakr which he did one year after the prophet’s death. The individual companions had some compilations of the Quran; some had a page, others had two pages, others had written down the explanation of the verses.

    As for the witnesses of the Quran revealed to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, the number of the witnesses of the revelation of the Quran is exactly the same as the number of witnesses of the bible which is exactly the number of the witnesses of the Torah which is exactly equal to the number of witnesses to the Talmod (book of David) which is exactly equal to the number of witnesses to the revelation on Prophet Ibraham (peace be upon all of them). The life of prophet Muhammad is an extra witness: he was known as the truthful and the trustworthy before he received revelation. He was illiterate, yet, he received a miracle of linguistics. He only received revelation when he was 40 and bever said poetry before even though poetry was the trade of the Arabs of that time.

    Let me shift the discussion to a different scope for a minute: Please answer the following. Let us put faith on the side for just a second.

    Jay,

    Which seems more logical to you: First that you (Jay) are responsible and accountable for your life, for your comments on this blog, for any good or bad that you do and ultimately for you actions in this life? OR that someone will come and carry and die for the actions that you yourself have committed willingly?

    Which seems more logical to you?

    Which seems more logical to you: God has a son and the there is the holy ghost. The father is God, the son is God and the holy spirit is God, but they are not 3 Gods but one God? OR that there is only one GOD worthy or worship? God has no son or wife or equal; he is the sustainer of the universe.

    Thanks

    Comment by WhyIslam — November 13, 2008 @ 11:54 am | Reply

  24. Dear Why Islam ,

    O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.

    My answer for your question about trinity according to the above vese is that logicical questions are forbidden. Please refrain from asking about the nature of God NOT because he is God and his nature is too complicated for you and i to understand and put into prospective; NOT because it is not as simple to comprehend the unlimited and put him into a limited container called brain which he created. I’m asking you to refrain from asking about the nature of God the creator of all, is from your own Quran and the above verse which clearly commands you as a Muslim from asking such questions.

    However my good friend (If you allow me), God’s image in the Quran is as basic and as simple as a nomad from the 14th century Arabian dessert would protray and try to convey to others. Our God is a much more complicated, suphisticated and a much harder to understand then Allah of the Quran which is an evidence that he is the true God! If you can understand the nature of a human being, his souls, biology and his properties which are considered so complicated to us are so so so primitive when compared with those of the creator himself?
    To further clarify my point, compare a bicyle to a car. Which is easier to unerstand and which is better and faster and more efficient and which concept is more advanced. A bicycle is step one and a car is the final and most complete model.

    Can you understand electricity fully even if you have a master’s in EE, electricity is a complicated, grim concept which gets studied in schools and Universities over many many years to understand and try get grip of and understand its properties. How much more complicated is the real God of the Bible. Trinity is a secret concept and property of the real God which made fully revealed in the New Tastement and we are so previliged to have been given such a remarkebale and amazing Godly secret. In the Old testement you’ll see signs of that maginificent secret of God which will be later revealed like i mentioned in the New tatement. So try understanding trinity in your limited mind and brain but if i were you, i’d follow he Quranic verse and just believe it’s true!!

    God revealed himself to humanity gradually throughout history in the Bible. How can you explain electricity to a kid? You cant! His brain won’t comprehend it and he may laugh at you! All you can do in the beginning is to give him a description he could relate to which is relevent to his own level of understanding. Allah’s image in The Quran is so primitive and so basic that muslims are stuck with and it’s time to change that and start thinking. Moreover he is a changing Allah who contadicts himself in many many occassions in the Quran. For instance his 99 names were just recently reduced to maybe around 70 names by Al Azhar university most prestigeous commitee and assembly of Muslim scholars in Cairo Egypt which was approved by all Muslims world wide. After 1400 years Allah’s names in the Quran were found to be contadictory and inconsistent and out of touch! How could you trust such God?

    JOHN. 5.39. “Search the scriptures, for in them ye think ye have eternal life, and they are they which testify of me.” EPH. 2.20. “And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets.”

    The Bible asks us boldly to investigate and search the truth and encourage s us to compare and study. A sign of validity and truthfullness unlike the case with the Quran and th fear that people would leave Islam if they start to compare and think logically. One religion asks to shut down your brain and the other one asks to use your brain. Which is more logical to follow?

    Thank you,
    Jay

    Comment by JAY — November 15, 2008 @ 2:49 pm | Reply

  25. Thanks for the comment,

    However, you didn’t answer my questions. Put faith to the side, Is it logical or not?

    I didn’t ask about the nature of God as we know that this is beyond our understanding. My questions are:

    1. Is it logical for your understanding the concept of trinity?

    2. Is it logical or fair that you (or the next guy) wouldn’t be accountable for your actions which you have committed willingly?

    3. Is it logical for you that God has sent his only Son (who is God) be he’s different than God who is himself God to die (in the literal sense) for your sins which are committed intentionally?

    4. Which is more logical for your understanding: that

    (I) God is one; he in the only and unique. There is nothing like him and yet he is the all seeing and the all hearing. The creator and the sustainer of all that lives and that each person will be accountable for his/her actions.

    (II) The father is God, the son is God and the holy ghost is God. They are not 3 Gods but one God. The father (who is God) sent his begotten son (who is the same God) to die (literary (God dying literary)) for your sins.

    All of these questions require no more than one word answer.

    Comment by WhyIslam — November 24, 2008 @ 12:45 pm | Reply

  26. Dear Why Islam,

    I ask you this main question:
    Is it logical that you consist of flesh (A body)and spirit(Soul)? Now how hard is it really to believe that you’re creator/God has in addition a word and a spirit!
    Why is it illogical that the creator is just a LITTLE bit more ilogical and a LITTLE bit harder to understand then to understand you as his creation?
    Do you see what you’re doing? you’re limiting YOUR creator to fit your understanding and logic and therefore you’re trying to convince me that your creator can not be more Illogical then you are! Is a robot more complicated then the least of humans? Does a robot have a spirit?

    Again i’m going to have to quote my favourite verse from your Quran: O ye who believe! Ask not questions about things which, if made plain to you, may cause you trouble.

    Since you started the logical/illogical type of questions, i have a few of my own and please i m not getting you to violate the above verse:

    1) Is it logical that ALLAH is eternally sitting on a chair up in heaven all ALONE eternaly and forever? Is he a mute and deaf Allah? If he is neither, who does he talk to? who does he listen to? Does he talk to himself?

    2) Is it logical that this God created a man out of dust and made this man sin so he could punish him? The bigger question is:
    Is the theory of creation sound logical to you?

    3) Is it logical that this God sent bunch of messengers to humans with different religeons and couldn’t protect them nor protect his word? Is it logical that he waited six hundred years afer Christianity, to send yet another prophet with a new religeon no one at that time heard of (islam) to even confuse people even more? Why didnt he call it Christianity if it was an extension to his ongoing message? Why a new name?

    Guess what? he failed again! he needs to send another prophet/prophets to Europe, south/North America and Australia in English! why? because Christianity is more dominent in those parts of the World and Islam is so defamed the public has a hardtime believing that such a religeon is Godly! So if there is a time to send another prophet, it’s now! Ooops who’s mistake is that? I guess this God mismanaged and miscalculated his master plan!! He caused a major confusion and divisions among people and as a result we have now three major religions! Is that logical to you?

    4)Is it logical that some of ALLAH’s names are the deceiver, the harmfull and the misleader? Guess who has simmilar names? Satan!

    6) Considering that the Quran was revealed within 20 years period, how many times Allah contradicted himself in that period? The answer is: Read the Quran!

    To answer your questions:
    A: There is One God. The father, the son and the Holly spirit. The father is God. The Son is God and the Holly spirit is God.One triune God who spoke in plural in the Old tatstement whose son made revealation in the OT and so did his spirit.
    In the new testement, the son carried our sin on the cross then he ascended to heaven and is alive. The Holly spirit came down and he is the God on earth living in his believers!

    B: When Adam sinned, he was kicked out of Garden of Eden. His sons were born outside of Garden of Eden. Was it their fault? They should’ve been allowed back to Garden of Eden. When you get the flu virus, you seek treatement and you dont cry why is it your fault! Sin is a virus! Besides and regardless, we all except for Christ Jesus, have sinned and are sinners and need treatment. Jesus who is alive now alone offers the ultimate cure, healing and eternal life.

    Thank you,

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — November 29, 2008 @ 12:14 am | Reply

  27. Dear`Why Islam,
    More bombing and violnece caused by islamist in India! Name any religious group other then the Islamic ones that causes violence in the World as much as the followers of Islam do. Now this brings up the next question: Which is more logical to you:
    1:
    This religion is indeed a violent and non Godly one evident by the actions of its followers repeatedly time in and time out who are follwing direct and clear Quranic orders.
    2:
    This religion is not a violent one and is Godly. All of these different radicals from all over the world are only misinterpreting the Quran and misinterpreting all of the verses that call for violence and killing and neck breaking.

    Thanks!

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — December 1, 2008 @ 10:54 pm | Reply

  28. Dear Jay,

    Again, Islam is not a violent religion as I have proved many many times. The actions of a few people have no effect on the religion itself. This criminal action is primarily a product of oppression and politics. What happened was a horrible crime and a serious one in the sight of God.

    Again, there are more than 1 billion Muslims around the globe and about 10 million Muslims in the US. To judge those people on the basis of a couple of hundred is a crime against logic.

    You have sent before similar claims and I answered them; I wonder if you even read the replies.

    Each group has had some criminal activities done in the name of the religion. Do you really want me to mention the massacres done by the church?

    Recently, there are many instances of Jewish terrorism against the Palestinians (confessions of the Prime minister Ehud Olmert even though it’s a state founded on terrorism). Depriving the people of Gazza of food and water with many dying every day by the jewish state is not terrorism!!!

    Search for “Christian Terrorism” and you will find your answer.

    Comment by WhyIslam — December 2, 2008 @ 1:02 pm | Reply

  29. I was reading and I found the following article and here are some snippets which support my claim of this crime being a product of oppression and politics. The article is from the NY Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/02/opinion/02mishra.html)

    “MIDWAY through last week’s murderous rampage in Mumbai, one of the suspected gunmen at the besieged Jewish center called a popular Indian TV channel. Speaking in Urdu (the primary language of Pakistan and many Indian Muslims), he ranted against the recent visit of an Israeli general to the Indian-ruled section of the Kashmir Valley. Referring to the Pakistan-backed insurgency in the valley, and the Indian military response to it, he asked, “Are you aware how many people have been killed in Kashmir?””

    “In a separate phone call, another gunman invoked the oppression of Muslims by Hindu nationalists and the destruction of the Babri Mosque in Ayodhya in 1992.”

    “The idea that the road to stability in South Asia goes through Kashmir is as persuasive as the notion that the path to peace in the Middle East goes through Jerusalem.”

    All of the actions were done for RETALIATION not for Islam. Oppression breeds such behavior in any place in any time. I am by no means trying to justify this terrible crime; I am just try to study it.

    Comment by WhyIslam — December 2, 2008 @ 1:30 pm | Reply

  30. Dear Why Islam,

    Lets compare Islam and Chrsitianity in respect to violence. Lets examine and see who has commited violence and who lived a peacefull life with out a single sin! Jesus Christ vs Mohammad since both are the main characters/leader of either religion. If you wish, why dont you compare the two and you tell everybody who you think is violent and who is NOT. How about that? By the way, you need to mention all the wars and invasions Mohamad lead. All the killings he commited or ordered and all the violent acts he commited and he commanded his followers to use against the enemies of Allah. You also need to mention all the violent Quranic verses that call for killing, breaking necks and limbs of humans. All the verses that call for terrorising others and all the verses the incite jihad and declare Holly war until Islam is most dominant…..etc Let the truth be told and nothing but the truth!?

    A complete comparison between Jesus Christ vs Mohamad. Their lives from Childhood until the end. What they taught and their actions. The Bible, the Quran and the tradition are your resources. If thats too much, i will take over and for me it would be the easiest case in the world to prove.

    When you compare how some Christians have commited violent crimes to what Muslims are doing and have done is very misleading. What Muslims are doing is supported by verses and actions of their leader/prophet and by direct commands and verses from their holly book the Quran.
    When Christians commit/commited any violence, it is/was Never supported by their leader’s teachings nor his actions nor his life nor the Bible! Never! Please lets get it right.

    Please lets compare the source of both religions with respect to violence and that will be the greatest evidence of which religion is Godly and which has nothing to do with the true God!

    Thank you!

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — December 2, 2008 @ 7:44 pm | Reply

  31. Dear Jay,

    I agree. However, let us also compare creed and belief for both religions. What I really want to compare is creed and belief: the belief that people are not responsible for their actions cannot be accepted by any right mind. Your example of a man with a flu is a wrong one. I am not asking about fairness; I am asking about justice.

    If a person does a bad deed, he/she should be responsible for what they have done willingly. Humans are not born in sin. We are born clean of all sins; how can I carry somebody’s else’s sins?!? I might be in a different situation because of a sin of another individual. But once I have the well to do things, I should be responsible.

    This is what Islam teaches. We are here because of what our father Adam done. However, we are not responsible for his sin. We have the full will to do whatever and we should be responsible for our actions. On the day of judgment, the person who has done good will be accounted for and the person who has done bad will be accounted for what he/she have done. That’s the day of justice.

    Second, about the nature of God that he could be one and three at the same time?!? I have a major problem there. You even said it’s illogical. Think about it! God is beyond our imagination in nature but the belief in God should be in the instinct of humans. The simple instinct which guides people to God. The simple instinct that says cannot have a partner nor a son.

    Evidently you know nothing about prophet Muhammed nor his life. Apparently, you know nothing about his life in Mekka and Madina. He is the one who said to the army when the polytheists of Mekka attacked them: “Do not cut a tree or kill a child, a woman or a man in his place of worship”.

    Again, Jesus is my beloved prophet and messenger. It’s not a place of comparison between the two great men. You are wrong in saying that the Church never based its terrorism on the bible. There are many verses in the bible which supports this claim. I really didn’t want to go here.

    Let me mention just a few verses from the Old Testament and New Testament and tell me what do you say about them:

    “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

    “When you approach a city to fight against it, you shall offer it terms of peace. If it agrees to make peace with you and opens to you, then all the people who are found in it shall become your forced labor and shall serve you. However, if it does not make peace with you, but makes war against you, then you shall besiege it. When the LORD your God gives it into your hand, you shall strike all the men in it with the edge of the sword. Only the women and the children and the animals and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall take as booty for yourself; and you shall use the spoil of your enemies which the LORD your God has given you… Only in the cities of these peoples that the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, you shall not leave alive anything that breathes (Deuteronomy 20:10-17)

    Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately. But all the girls who have not known man intimately, spare for yourselves. (Numbers 31:17-18)

    Even in the New Testament we read the following statements attributed to Jesus saying to his disciples:

    “I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

    “Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law” (Matthew 10:34-35)

    Comment by WhyIslam — December 2, 2008 @ 8:15 pm | Reply

  32. Jesus said love thy enemy. Jesus taught to turn the other cheek and give your pants in addition if asked for your shirt. He taught to bless thy enemy and pray for those who transgress against you! How did he say he sent a sword and that he set a brother against a brother and sister agains sister..etc? See no intigrity and you are just using two verses out of context in the whole New tatstement! Is that all the verses you have from the new tatstement? I think so! Two verses and i kind of suspected you were going to quote them.
    Jesus commanded peter to put his sword back and told him who comes by the sword will die by the sword. What the verse you quoted reffered to was when a Muslim converts to Christianity. His brother and his Mother and his Father and his sister will be against him. Just like the thousand Muslim whome are converting in every Muslim country and who their families are turning against them as well as their goverments.

    2) the verse from Luke 19 is again quoted out of context. it is reffering to jesus the lion who will come back and judge everyone according to their faith and deeds. So the slaying the punishment the eveil doers and the non believers will get after they die in the day of judgement. So it is not a direct command to kill the enemies of Allah on earth while living. Otherwise, show us a proof that that verse applies to from the life of Jesusus or his desciples?

    As to violence in the Torah or the Old tastement, those were all defensive wars and never offensive unlike the wars and invasions of Mohammad and his followers who invaded and enslaved and killed and tortured and hadsex with whoever they enlaved. Moreover, Mohamd accepted occassionally slaves as war present and he took full advantage and had sex with some as a reward.

    There have never been incidents where Christians quoted Christ in commiting violen acts or based their acts on any of the new tatement verses you quoted! The opposit is true with Islam and terrorists.

    Again you as a human being consist of flesh and spirit. That is your beleif but scentifically there is no such a thing as spirit which makes it illogical so your understanding of yourself is illogical too! Otherwise, prove it mathmatically or however you can!

    You said that God should be in the insinct of humans and the funny thing is he became human and you still doubt him!

    Your understanding of God is mysterious and scary. Allah is a distant God who is so scary and hard to please even prophet Mohamad never declared for sure he ‘d be in paradise. No one knows for sure their destiny. You are a slave and he is you master. You try your best to please him but he is so changing and deceving you never know where you’re going to end up! By the way, the deceievr is one of Allah’s names in the Quran.

    All you need to do is expand your belief of God and understand that he is more complicated then you are and biger and greater then you could imagine.

    Your logic and limited scope means nothing when it comes to understanding the unlimited. Explain electricity to little kid. It will sound illogical because its beyond his logic. Anyway, this logical illogical argument is not that hard to resolve or understand!

    Thanks,

    Jay

    Comment by JAY — December 2, 2008 @ 9:31 pm | Reply

  33. Dear Jay,

    Funny! so I am quoting out of context but it’s alright for you to do so… so what happened when a Christian converts to Islam? his family will hug him and have a party for him!

    How about the second verse from the new testament: ““Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword.”? Is it in the bible or not? You say: all the wars in the old testament are defensive?! How about: “And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.” or how about “Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man intimately.”.

    You are wrong also in saying that these verses have not been used by the church.

    Again, Jesus is my prophet and I never even wanted to go there had you not insisted… I only wanted to show you that two can play this game…

    Again, you come with the same accusations again and again… You say that Muslims killed people for no reason.. The most sacred thing in Islam is human beings. I say that all the wars at the time of the prophet and even after, were defensive or for a cause to end oppression.. I say that Prophet Muhammed was merciful and you say otherwise. I claim and you claim.. However, I have proof and you don’t and I hope you learned that you shouldn’t quote out of context.

    You say: “You said that God should be in the instinct of humans and the funny thing is he became human and you still doubt him!”

    This is exactly what any natural instinct will reject. I (‘I’ refers to my natural instincts) will reject that God (the creator of the heavens and the earths) is a human being like me. I will reject that God was born and DIED. I reject that God was born from the womb (excuse my next sentence) with blood from a woman’s vagina (whatever fluids comes with birth). I reject that God was helpless, powerless, goes to the bathroom and gets hungry and thirsty. I reject that God (according to Christian doctrine) was crucified and spit on. I also reject that God DIED. If Jesus was God then who did he pray to God?

    My natural instincts reject that people are not responsible for the actions that they have committed willingly and wholeheartedly. There is no logic or natural instinct on earth that will accept such a thing. It is only just and Godly that each individual will be accounted for his actions which they committed willingly and that they will not be accounted what they had no control over.

    My natural instincts reject a contradictory and illogical CONCEPT of God. Where he had a son who was himself God but wasn’t and then God (the son who himself is God) died. That God is (completely) the son who came on earth and was killed. That God is (completely) the father. That God is completely the holy spirit. and that God is completely all 3 at the same time.

    I understand that the reality and the nature of God is well beyond out imagination but the concept shouldn’t. With your example of Humans that we are spirit and flesh, etc. What happened if my flesh DIED? Is my flesh COMPLETELY me? Is my SPIRIT completely me? No, they all make me.

    The Quran says that whomever did an atom of good, he will see good and whomever did an atom of bad he will accounted for.

    Again, Jesus peace be upon him is one of the greatest men to ever walk this earth. He is my prophet and messenger. I believe in him and in his miracles which occurred with God’s permission. But he was not God or the son of God.

    Comment by WhyIslam — December 3, 2008 @ 8:48 am | Reply

  34. Dear Why Islam,
    If you notice, what youre trying to do all along is to associate Christianity and Christ with violence in your attempt to justify the violent nature of islam, the prophet of islam and the tradition of Islam. As if by proving that Christianity is a violent religion, Islam would then look less violent. You need to address all the violence that Mohamad commited in his life and all the violence in the Quran rather then making false accusation and trying to make Christianity look bad Islam wouldn’t look so bad!

    Clearly it’s a desperate attempt on your part to throw a little dirt on Christianity. Making such claims that Christianity is a violent relgion is rather comic and no one in their right mind would even believe that Christ was a violent man or preached violence in the Bible!

    In fact, Christ was the epidomy of love and forgiveness. Not only he preached love but he showed the ultimate love when he died for us on the cross. He forgave his enemies and blessed them and turned the other cheek.
    Now the complete opposite of that is Mohamdad who killed normal people and ordered killing of others. He lead wars and he terrorised people and taught it to his followers who then followed his footsteps. Further more, he always cursed his enemies and taught his followers hatred towards non believers.
    Now please tell the three verses you quoted from the New Tastement attributted to Jesus Christ were NOT taken out of context!

    The difference between the two is like the difference between white and black or day and not! One gave life and one took it away!

    As to the concept of God that you refuse to believe, it is the same concept when one throws completely himself in dead sea water. The salty water’s density will keep the body float regardless of what concept one has of the water. You would need to just do it and trust that the water will lift you eventhough the concept is grim to someone that is unfammiliar with the density laws and physics.
    Then you will experience it for yourself. Billions througout history experienced it personally and they all could attest that it works and it makes perfect sense.
    God has a word (Jesus Christ), spirit(Holy Spirit) and self (The father).
    Jesus is the word of God even in the Quran he is called so. Now the question is was God ever a Mute God and with out a word? Or was his word with him and part of him always? What does word mean to you? Is n’t it you thought? Is your word part of who you are as a human being?Is n’t your word, your expression?
    For a Quran believer, you should have no problem with the father and holy spirit being two in one just like you have a spirit and body!

    Finally, one has to admit it’s kind of funny that you belive that one time in history there was nothing and all of a sudden, God decided to create this universe in 7 days and he created man from dust by just blowing into it. It’s baffeling that the concept of creation is in complete synch and clicks with your natural instincts but to believe that God has a spirit and word is so much harder to believe and comprehend!

    Thank you and have a happy holiday season

    Jay

    Comment by Jay — December 22, 2008 @ 9:02 pm | Reply

  35. Dear WhyIslam,

    I just wanted to add few things to my earlier post and at the time i would like you to forgive me if i unintentionaly wrote any things that might have been prsonaly offensive for that was totally not my intention. I have all the respect for you and your beliefs. I’m also thankfull for the opportunity you’ve allowed me on your domain to express my opinion.

    Here is a little more on the concept of God in the Bible as i undrstand it: God throughout the bible has been transparent in three persons. In the OT, you could see him clearly as the main character but on occassion you ‘d also read about his spirit and his son. In the book of Genesis, there are many refferences to the triune God apparent in the begining the story of creation, when God spoke in plural form which is foreign to the Hebrew language and tradition for a King or high official to reffrence himself in plural as is the case in Arabic tradition. You can read about hundreds of prophesies about Christ, as Lord of Lord and King of Kings! As to the the Holy spirit, He has always been apparent from the begining to the end of the Bible.

    In the NT, the son was born into our world miraculously from a virgin and that does not mean he never exisited before for he always was there. In fact, through him everything came into existence. He was the expression of God and his word that never was apart of him. The title son is not indicative of a sexual relationship or a physical one, but rather figurative one and the misconception Muslims have is by taking the title “son’ litrally which is totally not the case.
    God loved his creation whom had transgressed and violated his ultimate law by redeeming his own creation. So for us to understand the magnititude of his love, Jesus (The expression of God) came down to earth as a human being and lived like one but sinless, and took the wages of sin by dying volunterily and wellingly on the cross to take away the punishment which was originally decreed on us. The wages of sin is death and that was the law that was broken and without blood shed, it could’nt have been fixed!

    God in garden of Eden made the first sacrificial offering to redeem Adam and Eve when he covered them with sheep skin! The down sid with that, it only offered a temporary solution but Christ was the ultimate offering and solution. He died for all humanity and only who believes in Christ, shall be free!

    The sin Adam commited in the garden of Eden by not listening to God and disobeying his one command was so great that it took thousands of years of suffering, struggle to satisfy God only temporarily. Living under the law for that long, humanity needed CHrist’s ultimate grace and there came the New tatstement with Christ who completed the law and fullfilled it when he died undeservengly so we could live deservingly!

    The holly spirit, is the God who lives in his believers and he is the spirit of God who came down to dwell among us to be the presence of God on earth.

    Thank you,

    Jay

    Comment by Jay — December 26, 2008 @ 11:27 am | Reply

  36. Dear WhyIslam,

    Mohamad came up with a new religion 1400 years ago neither the Jews nor the Christians accepted. Had there were any incications, prophesies or signs of his religion or himself in their holy books, Somebody should’ve/would’ve accepted him. It’s impossible that there were no righteous people around!
    Mohamad/Islam would’ve been the fullfillment of their(Either the christians or the Jews) scripture and would’ve validated their religion even further.

    The proof Mohamd’s massage was not divine at all is just that! No one believed/accepted him from the people of the book! So simple and easy to get! (Dont get any idea’s, Jesus was a devout Jew himself and it would be a different point there. Jesus was the fullfillment of the Old testement as he declaired it repeatedly and the Old testement is full of refrences about him. Moreover a lot of the Jews accepted him and followed him)
    Besides, since Mohamdad came last, there were Christians and Jews around and a chance for more people to believe him from different backgrounds but neither found his massage to be ligitimate, needed and well supported.

    Again no one accepted him and the people that accepted him were somehow either forced and threthened or put under some sort of financial pressure or had a some kind of political gain. The whole Islamic empire spread to northern Africa all the way to Europe through wars and invasion one can not deny just the way Mohamad laid the way.

    There was no one that actually witnessed the divine revealation except for mohamad himself and his story was accepted blindly and ignorantly by all who became Muslims. A story of a man receiving divine revealations in a cave inside of a mountain somewhere in the arabian desert over a period of 20 years claiming everything that had been revealed earlier was distorted.

    That is so unbelievable!!No evidence No proof! No details! No specifics! When? Where? why? How did all the Christians and the jews decide to distort their holly books together to become one book and to make matters even more interesting, they still decided to stick to their own seperate religions and never united after the alleged union and agreement!!! So crazy and so rediculous to believe! How does anybody believe that craziness?
    One grim/mysterious verse from the Quran and all that was revealed by God was no longer good! That is so unbelievable!

    You have not provided any prophesies about Mohamad from the Quran or outside of it! You have not provided any withnesses/proofs for the encounters Mohamad had in that cave to verify they were divine! There are no signs, proofs, prophesies, witnesses outside of the Quran and Mohamad, to his validity as a prophet! Outside ofthe Quran he is nobody! Outside of his own book no one has ever heard of him!

    All the Books today declare Mosses to be a prophet no denying in that, so is soloman, David, Samson..etc No one can deny Adam and Eve and their story. In the Old testestment (Torah), there are hundreds of prophesies about Christ. In the new testement (Injeel)Jesus was born and hundreds of prophesies from the Torah were fullfilled in his birth, life, crusifixtion, death and ascension and they are all available for anybody to invistigate and read in the New testement of the Bible. There are reffrences to the Old Testement(Torah) as well in the New testement (Injeel).

    What did anybody say about Mohamad? Nothing! I got you, everything is distorted and his name was omitted from all the scripture and holy books that came before him! Nothing original was saved for us today! You know what, tomorrow all the cows in this world will be able to fly!

    Thanks,

    Jay

    Comment by Jay — January 9, 2009 @ 1:32 pm | Reply

  37. Thanks for the response Jay,

    I have been following the news deligently the past 2 weeks to witness the crimes and genocide of the Jewish state of Israel. Crimes against people because of who they are. So far 850 people have been killed with the majority of whom are women and children. More than 4000 people injured. No food or water for the people who besieged for the last 3 years. Shameful on us as human beings.

    I really would like to thank you for your responses. Really, I enojoy the discussions.

    You remember all along that I didn’t even want to go and quote from the bible at all until you requested me to do so. I agree with you that bad does not justify bad in our comparison. But I never intended for us to compare religions based on that aspect alone; I wanted to show you that all religions have had some violent sects and I wanted to demonstrate that the church is no exception and that the church have used the bible to supprot such claims in the past.

    I never said that Jesus peace be upon him was a violent man. On the contrary, I said many many times that he is my prophet and that he has been oppressed and he as all prophets (including prophet Muhammad peace be upon them all) are mercy to mankind.

    In your claims against terrorism against Islam, I have answered you many many times and I do not know what to do further. I explained the verses of Jihad in Islam. I explained the states of the Muslims (different between war and peace). The jews had their golden age under the Islamic khalifate in Spain before the inquisition. I also explained that you cannot quote or write anything out of context.

    So if you have some specific aspect, detail it and please stop the general terms like ‘terrorism’, etc. You say that he killed normal people; I say this is a LIE. I quoted the prophet as saying: ‘Do not kill a tree, a woman, a child or man in his worship. Fight only those who fight you’. He peace be upon him never started a war. He peace be upon him taught that Christians and Jews are people of the book and they must be protected in the Muslim governemnt. Allah said there shall be no force in religion. So unless you have a detail with a reference, bring it.

    As I said: somehow you see when I quote out context but you do not see when you quote out of context.

    I have explained in my last post why Jesus peace be upon cannot be God nor the son of God. I see no benefit in repeating myself.

    Then again you are using the Quran to say that if the Quran (as you claim) testifies to you notion of 3 in 1, then it must make sense. The Quran clearly does not say that.

    The Quran says that Jesus peace be upon him is similar to Adam. Jesus is the word of God as is Adam as is the whole world: the word ‘BE’. Allah (God) if he wills anything to be, he shall say: ‘BE’ and it is. In other words, Jesus just like Adam is the command of Allah (God). The spirit is the angel Gibrael to blow the spirit (the soul) into the virgin mary to have a son. Allah clearly says that the people who say that God (the father) is one of 3, they have disbelieved. The Quran says that if you say that Jesus is God, then they have disbelieved.

    God is one and there is no other God but him. I do have a problem in the father and holy spirit being two in one just like you have a spirit and body. How can this happen? So the father is not complete by himself. When the holy spirit was somewhere else, the father ceased to exist!! Your porblem is somehow dividing those things and saying that they are totally separate and that they are one at the same time.

    Even if it is as you say: “God has a word (Jesus Christ), spirit(Holy Spirit) and self (The father).” How can they all be separate and one at the same time? Was the father without a word when Jesus DIED? or Jesus was on earth without a self and a spirit?!?!?

    Once again, as this whole magnificent word is so great. I find the concept of God in Christianity still illogical.

    You said: ” The sin Adam committed in the garden of Eden by not listening to God and disobeying his one command was so great that it took thousands of years of suffering, struggle to satisfy God only temporarily.” Such merciful God!

    So to conclude:

    1. You have to say that the concept of trinity is illogical and cannot be explained by common sense.
    2. It’s still completely unjust that the people are not accountable for the deeds they committed intentionally and knowingly.
    3. I cannot and will not believe in God that DIED, was born like any child (the process of birth), went to a bathroom, ate food, and prayed to God and later crucified.
    4. The bible itself cannot stand the test of science nor logic as a book. Even christians themselevs agree to that, they found so many scripts, not too are the same.
    5. No other prophet has ever brought the notion of trinity; all of them asked people to worship the one and true God. Why?! God didn’t think it was a good time to tell people about it.
    6. Prophets in Christianity are not considered righteous people. Prophet Lut (according to the bible (and it is a lie)) had committed adultery with his daughters. Prophet David fought the father!!! COME ON.

    Compare the above with Islam:

    1. One true God, Lord and creator of all that exists
    2. Each person will be accountable for his/her own deeds.
    3. God is omnipotent; he needs nothing and there is nothing like him and he’s the all seeing the all hearing.
    4. There is one copy of the Quran; from east to west north to south.
    5. Prophets are the best of people. They are righteous people.

    Comment by WhyIslam — January 11, 2009 @ 5:52 pm | Reply

  38. As for last point, you say: “Mohamad came up with a new religion 1400 years ago neither the Jews nor the Christians accepted. Had there were any incications, prophesies or signs of his religion or himself in their holy books, Somebody should’ve/would’ve accepted him. It’s impossible that there were no righteous people around!”

    Really!!! So the prophet Muhammed was the fist Muslim! Now the Muslims more than 1.5 billion people and you say that no Jews or Christians accepted the message!! Many of the Christians and Jews accepted Islam at the time of prophet Muhammed and after him. Your statement is incorrect.

    Islam is also not a new religion; it is the religion of all prophets and messengers before; to worship the one and true God.

    Comment by WhyIslam — January 11, 2009 @ 5:53 pm | Reply

  39. Dear WhyIslam,

    To simplify my points and to clearify matters, I ‘m going to list few questions which your honest answers will be appreciated here are few that i can think of ight now and may follow up with more:

    Mohamad:
    1: Did the prophet of Islam kill any human being directly or indirectly by ordering the killing?

    2: Were any of prophet of Islam’s wars and invasions, offensive at all?

    3: Did the prophet of Islam have sex with his wife Aisha when she was 9 years old after getting married to her for 3 years back when she was only 6?

    4: Was Mohamad married to all of the women he slept wih him? Did he ever sleep with war slaves that were offered to him as war reward?

    5: Did mohamad marry his own daughter in law? After convincing his son to divorce her for him since it became somehow the well of Allah?

    6: Did Mohamad in ordert to justify banning adaption, decree breast feeding of adapted adult to a family?

    7: Was Mohamad ever under the influence of Magic for a period of two years in which revealations never stopped comming?

    8: Was mohamad ever in doubt in the identity of who was appearing to him in the cave in the wilderness wether it was a demon?

    Paradise and women:

    9: What were Mohamads favourite three things in life according to Mohamad himself? Please quote what he personally mentioned.

    10: Is it true that in heaven accoding to Mohamad and Islam, a Muslim will enjoy having sex with 77 heavenly ageless virgins and drink wine straight from rivers flowing in paradise? Is it true that one guaranteed way to enjoy heavenly paradise is to die as a martyr?

    11: What is the reward for the female muslim in heaven? is endless sex one of her rewards? with who?

    12: is it true that according Islamic court, the testemony of one man is equivelanat to two females? and in inheritance their shares are also not 50/50?

    13: Is it true that in islam, a man can marry upto 4 women and he can recycle at well, or divorse at well but in order for the wife to divorce, she has to produce at least two witnesses that witnessed her husband was cheating on her?

    Idol worshiping, pilgramage& prayers:

    14: Is it true that all Muslims during their pilgrimage month of ramadan in Mecca are reuired to cyrcle around the kabaa and the black stone seven times? is n’t that a pagan ritual and idol woshiping? is it true that leaving mecca, they become as inocent as a child? and all their sins would be fogiven?

    15: Is it true that all Muslims no matter where they are on earth, must face Kaaba and the black stone when praying rather facing up where actually God is believed to be? Who are they looking at ? God or a stone?

    16: Is it true that a Muslim must pray five times a day and while praying must perform kneeling and turning of the head left and right and some movements and rituals? and their prayers consist of repeating some verses certain number of times and if any of the instructions were violated , the prayer does not count and must be repeated?

    Dear WhyIslam, I can have a field day questionoing Islam and Mohamad’s teaching and personality but the difference between Christianity and Islam Christ/Mohamad is as clear as the sun.

    Trinity:
    Again i made convincing arguments which you chose to ignore like beleiving in the theory of creation but not being able to accept the triune God which is not consistent and bias. You’re being selective in choosing what makes sense to your natural instincts and what doesn’t. You either believe one way or the other. You can’t tell me that you believe that God created man out of dust instantly and created this uneverse in just 6 days and in turn, claim that this oneGod has also a spirit and word which are seperate identities but make this ONE God is hard to believe and does not agree your logic?!!! Total nonsense and i chllenge you that you are in consistent!

    And ofcourse Mohamad was the first Muslim! Where, outside of your Quran does it say otherwise? Check the Torah, David’s Psalms and the Injeel and neither mentions Mohamad or islam which are totally made up and only exist in the Quran which Muhamad came up with and put together with a lot of help from various sources. There are no history books or any proofs that islam or Muslims existed before Muhamad ABSOLUTELY!

    On the contrary, i could show you David’s Psalms, Mosses’s Torah and many prophets books from the Old testement refrencing Jesus Christ besides the Injeel and the history testifies to that.

    As to copies of the Quran, Othman ibn Afaan burnt most of them and kept what he thought was the right one to keep. Was n’t the Quran compiled a while after mohamad ‘s death and wasn’t compile based on memeory last time i checked? How about the mistakes in it? Gramatical, geagraphical and the foreign words in it which contradicts its claim of being an Arabic Quran?

    In summary, a simple comparison in the life of Muhamad and Jesus Christ(Personality, Actions, life style and what each taught) is more then enough to see the huge difference between the two and in turn their massage and religion and which is Godly and which is not. Only if you’re serious about wanting to know the truth!

    Thank you

    Jay

    Comment by Jay — January 15, 2009 @ 1:24 pm | Reply

    • According to Wikipedia, this concept of trinity was invented/formulated in year 325 (300 years after Jesus peace be upon him), the Council of Nicaea adopted a term for the relationship between the Son and the Father that from then on was seen as the hallmark of orthodoxy. So the first question that arises is: what about the people before this creed was legislated? You had the Arian controversy where one third of the attendees were saying that Jesus (peace be upon him) is a creation (the best creation) while others differed is he was begotten or born. So before the year 325 (almost 300 years after Jesus), they tried to formulate a creed where many people still differed before and after the creed.

      The creed says:The father is God, the son is God, the holy ghost (spirit) is God but they are not 3 Gods but one God.

      Let us see if this is logically coherent:

      So in trinity, you have the

      Father = COMPLETE God
      The son = COMPLETE God
      The holy spirit = COMPLETE God

      So logically, one have to conclude that Jesus is the same as the father who is the same as the holy spirit (which is not true in Christiandom). Christianity takes it a step further, it says:

      The father (the COMPLETE God) is not the same as the son (the COMPLETE God) — John 14:28: “The father is greater than I”
      The son (the COMPLETE God) is not the same as the father (the COMPLETE God)
      The holy spirit (the COMPLETE God) is not the same as the father (the COMPLETE God ) or the son (the COMPLETE God)

      Common sense says that the father would be the same as the son and the holy spirit and that all are the same and all are equal. Or that since the father is not equal to the son nor the holy spirit (as the bible teaches), Christians worship indeed 3 Gods.

      Also since Jesus who is the COMPLETE God (according to Christianity) died for 3 days then God died. However, Christian sense says NO.

      All analogies would fail to describe the above contradiction:

      saying that I have a flesh and a blood and a soul is actually an argument which contradicts your belief:

      The spirit is the complete I (incorrect statement: my spirit is not completely me but a part of me)
      The flesh is the complete I (also incorrect statement: my flesh is not completely me but a part of me
      The blood is the complete I (also incorrect statement: my blood is not completely me but a part of me)

      This is where your argument fails: none of the above statements is correct. This is where all analogies will fail (the analogy of the ti me, or the egg or any other analogy).

      So logically speaking:

      you either say that the father is part of God; Jesus is a part of God and so is the holy spirit. So none is actually God but all together are God and when Jesus died (according to Christianity) part of God died!

      or

      you say that the father is God and the son is God and the holy ghost is God. And since they are not equal, Christians worship 3 Gods.

      or

      you become a Muslim, and acknowledge that the there is one God worthy of worship. The one God who created the heavens and the earths. Jesus is a great prophet of God who was created by God’s word which is ‘Be’.

      or

      you say: even though this makes no sense to me, I believe it. I believe that God was a human being who was born and died. He was born from a woman like any other child. He ate food and went to the bathroom. He even prayed to God (the father) even though he was himself God but was not but was.

      In my opinion, worshiping God and knowing God is the most important mission of any human being, how can you claim that it is so logically incoherent! How can you believe that people will not be responsible for their actions which they have committed willingly? How can one person not be responsible for his/her own actions? Where is justice? As God in Islam is the most just.

      Now back to answering your questions about Islam: I will answer one question at the time.

      The answer for the first question is NO. Prophet Muhammed never killed or ordered to kill an innocent human being.

      p.s. I noticed that all of your questions about Islam, you never questioned the message. The message of One God who has no son nor an equal.

      Comment by WhyIslam — January 28, 2009 @ 9:00 pm | Reply


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