Prove It… « Islamic Discussions and Thougths

December 9, 2007

Prove It…

Filed under: Islam, Opinion, Religion, Video, Zakaria Botros — WhyIslam @ 7:26 pm
Tags: Islam, life, moslim, muslim, Video, zakir naik

How can we prove that Islam is the best way of life? All religions speak good things: not to rob, not to steal, etc. What is the difference?

12 Comments »

That was an awesome video mashAllah. Very logical.

Comment by americanmuslim — December 9, 2007 @ 10:13 pm
Cannot agree more… very logical indeed yet not many people knew it (including myself)

Comment by ztuffaha — December 10, 2007 @ 11:05 pm
me too…. That’s a nice perspective to see how islam is different from other religions in terms of promoting good virtues.

But I guess I read in the bible (new testament) too that jesus, peace be upon him, said “It is better to rip off your eyes than to look at a woman lustfully”. So I guess there might be some rules or guidelines but definitely not the like ISLAM where there are details and full laws and rules to implement the good virtues and govern people in all aspects.

Comment by muneeb — December 11, 2007 @ 2:41 am
Islam unfortunately and apparantly only treats the outside and doesn’t treat the true problem which lies within. Cuting off limbs and capital punishment is just a superficial way that is so unefective and non realistic way to heal Human’s sinfull nature! You can cut off every bad fruit you want and nothing will happen to the tree if the seed is bad. See the problem is more indivdual as in the seed then the community(Tree). Accoring to the Bible, perfection can not be reached on earth. This world will never reach harmony and perfection because of the bad seed(Sin) that exist in it(The World). So What Islam offers is just an ancient theory or system that never has and will never prove effective. Jesus said if one looks at a woman with a lustfull eye has already commited an adultry with her in his heart. It’s not about looking once or twice; its from the inside that bad thoughts, jealousy…evilness are originated and not from human limbs! its the state of the heart and wether you have a clean heart and the looking or stealing or…etc is just the bad fruit!!

Comment by Jay — January 14, 2008 @ 5:20 pm
Jay,

I disagree with you. Islam is the one and only religion which treats the problem within. One of the primary purposes of the Quran is to purify the hearts. What heart would not be pure when it stands before its creator 5 times daily? What heart would not be pure when it fasts to feel the struggle of the poor? What heart would not be pure when it does pilgrimage and feel the true equality? What heart would not be pure when it believes in God and the last day? Give me any problem and I will tell you how Islam treats the source of this problem.

I think that you missed the point of the clip. It says that Islam gives solutions (protective measures) like giving mandatory charity (pillar of Islam (which is much less than the tax money in the US for example)) to the poor to solve the problem of poverty. Islam understands that no body is perfect but there is a different between being imperfect and being a criminal or harming others. If you do something wrong (lie for example), you should repent to Allah (God) and God loves those who repent. But when you deal with human beings, the problem becomes a problem of rights and duties.

When you kill someone, you must be fairly judged.

ISLAM is a way of life with protective measures and laws; so do not look at the laws and forget the protective measures.

I always enjoy a healthy discussion.

Comment by ztuffaha — February 3, 2008 @ 3:25 am
Hi Ztuffaha,
Thanks for your reply. Looking at things from your prospective, Judaism offers a way and system of life on this earth as well as any other orginized religioen. Look at Israel for example, they have a great democtatic system going and they’re happy with their life even with the threat of their neibours and the prove is that their population keeps increasing!!
On the other hand, Arabs are divided into more then 15 countries. The Saudies apply the strict Islamic law and i should mention Iran also, which is an Islamic countriy that abides by the laws of Islam! I don’t see paradise in either system and Infact, if the people of those countries were given the freedom to leave today to the any of the European countries or the US, no one will be left in those countries! You don’t see Europeans or American immigrating to the middle east! It’s always Muslims and Arabs that seek immigration to the West and not vice versa!!! What does that prove to you? There is a Huge gap between the Muslim world and the rest of the advanced World in every aspect ,avenue and way! Eventhough the West is portrayed as evil!
My dear friend, my point is that if Islam really works, it should’ve worked for the Muslims in the first place and mind you, there is an ample of religeous people in the Muslim world and by far a lot more of them then in any part of the World and they all pray 5 times aday and fast one whole month a year. So until Allah answers their prayers and honors their religeous hard work, and until they stop trying to force God’s well by power and might and until they rely on the true God to do what he wants to do without human help and intereference, its really pointless and funny to try to advertise Islam to any body else! thanks

Comment by Jay — February 20, 2008 @ 4:39 pm
Hey Jay,

Glad that you have dropped by again. I am also glad that you dropped your good/bad apples analogy

Now that we covered how Islam treats the source of problems and also gives protective measures. So we should look at the whole picture.

Your second point is a fair one which targets the current situation of Muslims and compare the Muslim countries to other non-Muslim countries.

I honestly find it very misleading and (somewhat dishonest) to look at the Muslim situation in the last 100 years and not look at the situation of Muslims in the last 1400 years. For 1300 hundred years after the prophet peace be upon him passed away. Muslims were the center of civilization. People used to come to Damascus and Baghdad to learn science and philosophy. People used to learn Arabic as it was the dominant language of intellectuals. Where were the Europeans then? Where were the Americans then?

Jay, for 1300 hundred years, Muslims were the greatest scholars in Mathematics, medicine, architecture, etc. Muslims as well the strongest nation on this planet. In that nation, Jews used to take shelter in the Muslims and everybody (all religions) lived under the Islamic umbrella. Just study Muslim Spain or the Islamic empires and try to be objective.

If that proved anything, it proved that Islam works.

You are talking about Israel as an example. A land which is stolen from the Palestinians (I will leave this for a future discussion). Israel which is by the far the greatest theft which current history records. Israel is backup by the strongest nation in the past 50 years which is America. A nuclear nation whose democratic system is no where in the old testament?!?

Arabs and Muslims are divided by borders which the west have drawn and ruled by some dictators appointed by the west and whose constitutions are either a version of the French or the British constitution. The Kingdom (by the way, there is no Kingdom in Islam) Saudi Arabia is the only nation which is somewhat abiding by Islamic law. As you said, if the doors to migrate to non-muslim countries were open, some would go there but Millions would migrate out of the west to Saudi Arabia and I know.

Dear Friend,

Allah in the Quran says:”Allah will not change the situation of people until the people change the situation of themselves”. So prayers by themselves will not work unless supported by actions. you seem to have an idea that religion is magic! Allah wants people to work and this is one of the reasons that we (humans) are on this earth. This is why most of the prophets went through trials and tribulations before being victorious. Read the history of Prophet Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Muhammed (peace be upon all of them).

Jay,

What is 100 years in the life of nations or the life of this earth? I find it very hypocritical of you to look at the past 100 years and not even look at the 1300 years before. One of the greatest Muslim historians described the pyramid of nations where each nation will reach its peak and then decline. Next time you pass by a cemetery, stop and think how each one of those people had a life, work, money, family, etc; where are they now?

Is it very hard for you to believe in the one and true God who is the creator of the heavens and the earths? I really wish you would talk to me about the Quran or about the Sunnah of the prophet (peace be upon him).

You think it’s funny to advertise to Islam??!? You think it’s funny to advertise to the one God (not human Gods)?!? You think it’s funny to follow the Quran which is the preserved book of God?!?

Dear Jay,

I am not here to debate. I am here to discuss. Please have an open mind. Go to the sources of Islam and let’s talk. Leave the ideas which people try to plant in your head and make your own. Have you ever read or heard the Quran? Have you ever asked Muslims about their religions?

I am talking to you as an mindful person. You never asked yourself if this book was the real book of God? You never asked yourself why Islam is the largest monotheistic religion in the world? or why Islam has the highest number of converts in the western world?

Check the signs man. Treat this matter scientifically before a day comes where nothing will benefit and excuses will not suffice when you stand before God.

Thanks

Comment by ztuffaha — February 29, 2008 @ 11:26 pm
Hi Ztuffaha,
Thanks for your comment. I actually never dropped the bad/good apple analogy cause i never used an apple analogy before! It was a fruit analogy and i’m not sure how you got so specific? lol
Ok i read what wrote and i could see the points that you’re making. You do make sense in a way but believe me, i’m looking at things outside the box. If you’re locked in, you won’t be able to see other people’s prospectives. It’s very simple and easy to understand. I’ll give it a shot.
Three major religeons. Judaism, Chrstianity and Islam in order. Christianity believe in Judaism and doesn’t deny its validity. Actually Jesus said i have come to fullfill and complete the law and not oppose it. The law being what was reveald to Mosses and the prophets in the old tastement. The Bible comprises of the Old tastement and the new tastement. God’s word never changes and no one can dare to alter or distort it. It’s very important to agree on that (foundaion)otherwise, we’re up for more discussion
Seriously, how could humans change God’s word while God watching!? Christians believe that no man can change God’s word. God has/will always protect/ed his word. It is unchanging and it’s totally unacceptable to think that man can alter God’s word wellingly.
I will only accept the unfathamable assumption that such a fallacy took place sometime in history somehow for the sake of discussion. The details of it are abscent,grim, mysterious and only based on a hint without a motive in the Quran!
Then the logical question that follows would be why did God wait 600 or 700 hundred years to reveal the truth about the distortion assuming he allowed such horrendous thing to happen in the first place!! Why/when did the Christias and Jews agree to distort God’s word together? and to whose advantage and where all the good people go? Any originals left? Why all this confusion? Billions have lived and died since and were all deceieved…So according to the Islamic scenario, Allah is to blame for all the divissions, confusion (I mean major) and deception. Allah is also to blame for all the souls that will burn in hell as a result of his own doing. Let’s be serious here, the alleged meeting between and the Jews and Christians never took place. Just not enough evidence, not enough motive, and not good enough reason. What would be the price for loosing your eternity for such a conspiricy and how could you change the old tastement and the new tastement to such perfection and get rid of all the books existed at that time and many and many had to had been on it. It’s insane to believe that.
Moreover, the true God can not be that cruel to the closest desciples not to even mention any thing to them abou the substitue incase of crusifiction story and instead they all gave their lives away for the fact that Jesus died and rose up on the third day. And now the crusifiction issue, was it also among the topics that the Christian leaders agreed to make up without the jews permission!!? You need to figure Jesus Christ issue out in the Quran first before you move on. You can’t skip those questions because you know how big Christianity is. And it can’t be that all were made to be deceived unless that is exactly one of Allah’s attributes or names or is it?? I know in the Bible, God is not a deceiver for sure…
So back to my original thought, Islam does approve of Christianity and Judaism but doesn’t validate either one or at least what is believed to be Christianity and Judaism nowadays!! Christianity on the other hand believe what was revealed earlier and validates it which goes in line with the concept that God doesn’t change his word…or allow it to be changed…cause simply he doesn’t contradict himself…
Thank you

Comment by JAY — March 4, 2008 @ 9:31 pm
Dear Ztuffaha,

You said:
I am not here to debate. I am here to discuss. Please have an open mind. Go to the sources of Islam and let’s talk. Leave the ideas which people try to plant in your head and make your own. Have you ever read or heard the Quran? Have you ever asked Muslims about their religions?

Answer:
Yes i have read most of the Quran and it claims it’s a miracle! The book is written in Arabic to Arabic speaking audience. It means nothing to non Arabs. The Chineese have their own miraculous writtings and arts that no Chinese/non Chineese can replicate and compe up with. The Spaniards have their own philosophers and poets that wrote majestic pieces that are unmatched and unique. Motzart’s Music was considered cellestial and a gift from God by other Great musicians. To claim that the true God chose the Arabic language to manifest how great of a writter he is, sounds so silly and more like a joke to any neautral normal, intelligent decent human being. How is a swedish ’s supposed to see or understand such a miracle? or a korean or a Japaneese…or..etc even Arabs don’t all agree with that.
A miracle should not have restrictions as to who can acknowledge or recognize it or who can not. When a dead man rises, even a blind man will be astonished. When you part the red sea, so people can walk through one bank to another, an Escimo as well as any other human being will wonder and be shocked at what he is witnessing. Regardless of your race , color, language,a miracle should marvel you and anybodybody else that witnessed it.
I also found the Quran to be filled with conradictions and repeitions. The Jews and Christians? Are they friends or enemies? which verses to abide by? The non believers? Are they to be killed or left alone? Homosexual, should they punish or quarantined or left alone? Adulterers(Females)? mercy or stoning?Adulterers(Men get away clean)? Adult breast feeding? Why are the non believers subject to taxes (Financial hardship..why?) if they choose to keep their faith and live with the Muslims? The invasions of the prophet? were they forcefull or peacefull? the Islamic Empire’s expansion? Was it by the power of the sword or by convencing people to surrender and give up their land? Are women less mentally capable than men? Is that true? Why is a woman source of evil and have to cover up all the way so man won’t lust? She has to suffer and suffocate(Summer time) to keep men from looking (Bad/Good fruit analogy)…

You said:
I am talking to you as an mindful person. You never asked yourself if this book was the real book of God? You never asked yourself why Islam is the largest monotheistic religion in the world? or why Islam has the highest number of converts in the western world?

I say:

Did you ask yourself why does the West(Satan, evil..) allow all these converst to convert peacefully? can you say the same about the Islamic world? Did you ask yourself what if Muslims convert, what would happen to them in any Islamic country? Doesn’t that give you a hint? Christianity doesn’t need to be defended, God is running the show. Did you ask yourself why doesn’t Islam allow its peopel to ask questions that they have no answer for? or why aren’t the Muslims allowed to read the Bible or even block it from some contries? Did you ask yourself why aren’t there Churches in Saudia Arabia?

You said and i say Amen:

Check the signs man. Treat this matter scientifically before a day comes where nothing will benefit and excuses will not suffice when you stand before God.

peace and thank you

Comment by JAY — March 5, 2008 @ 7:17 pm
This is response to your first post.
——
Dear Jay,
Sorry for the very delayed reply. I was just very busy and somewhat lazy. I would like to continue this discussion. I would like to thank you about reminding me that I need to put myself in the mindset of others to understand them.
First off, I disagree with you in saying that Judaism and Christianity validate one another. According to what I know of Christianity, the only way to heaven is through Jesus. Thus, making the Jews with Muslims residents of eternal hell because they do not believe in Jesus as the savior God. How can you say that it validates it? How can you say that when Jews (who killed your God) and who say that that your God is nothing but a person (denying any kind of prophecy and that his mother was married… let alone the Jewish sects who say bad things about Jesus and his virtuous mother).
God’s word never changes. But people do change what is written in their books. Somehow you’re saying that God’s words are never changed but they are incomplete! The truth is that God’s word never changes but people can change what is written in those books. It’s on us to protect these books. Many prophets came before Moses (peace be upon him) like Adam, Noah, David, etc. Each prophet would come with revelation from God. People have changed their ways and in some cases have changed what is written in their books.
Jay,
You say: how would God allow that?? Muslims believe that God oversees everything but God gave humans the free will and the free choice to do what’s good and what’s evil. Hence we will be accounted for every deed which we do. People do blasphemy against God and his prophets but this does not mean that God likes it; it’s a free choice which comes with a free will and that will make the test fair (the test being this life).
As for the bible being changed, Muslims attitude towards that are what the prophet said: we do not say it’s right and we do not say it’s wrong. But we know that it has been changed.
Now this is not my own sayings, this is a fact. You’re reading the English bible (assuming it’s King James version) and you’re saying it’s the word of God! Did Jesus (p.b.u.h) receive it in English? Where the bible in Aaramaic (language of Jesus peace be upon him)? These are not my words… these are the words of your fellow Christian scholars.
And you say that how and why would the Christians and the Jews agree on changing it? (First of, the Jews do not care about the New Testament). For the record, what happened to the Christians after Jesus (p.b.u.h)? They were oppressed, killed and massacred by the Romans and the words of God were scattered thereafter. The Christians cannot agree on the exact characters of the authors of the bible. John who? Luke who? Mathew who? The Christian scholars say that there are hundreds of Manuscripts found not two are the same!
The Old Testament for one was written 1300 hundred years after Moses according to the Jewish scholars.
Now it’s a fact that the bible (and not the word of God) have changed. You have to know this for a fact when you hold your copy of the bible (assuming that none of the above applies), hope that the translators did a good job and that the Roman Catholics have been wrong in adding 6 chapters to the book. Listen to any debate of Ahmed Deadat, you will find that the Christian debaters go back to the ‘hallauuuuyyyyyaa’ part without responding by any rational logic.
To correct your thoughts and ideas about Islam, Islam means oneness of God (not father, son and Holy Ghost). Islam believes that all prophets are Muslims and they in the highest degree in heaven. Islam believes that the followers of these prophets who have followed their teachings are also in heaven. Islam believes that Islam and the Quran is the last and final word of God. Anyone who receives the message in its purity and neglect it, will be in hell. Islam believes that if anybody died before receiving the correct message, then we cannot make a judgment on him and Allah is the most just and the most merciful.
So much for saying that Judaism and Christianity complete each other each other when Judasim does not believe in your god prophet or in your book and when you believe that they would end up in hell.

Comment by WhyIslam — May 1, 2008 @ 8:15 pm
Dear WhyIslam,
Thanks for you response and the time you’ve taken to read my posts!
First of all, i never said in either of my posts that Judaism validates Christianity eventhough it does partially but did it even dawn on you that only a Christian believes in God’s prophets and their revelalations together which he happens to inludes in his book. A muslim only believes in messenger’s and prophet’s names but thinks that their revelations have been distorted! A muslim believes in Jesus, Moses and David by name only but has no clue what/where/why their books/massages are and what happened to them! and when?! Very confusing and so un-Godlylike way of doing things, one MUST admit!

So according to your explanation and theory, God’s word could be changed/distorted by humans and therefore the Quran also falls under that same criteria because humans preserved it over 1400 years starting from days of the dessert of Arabia. Since humans are erroneous and prone to making mistakes and commiting errors therfore, the Quran is no different than any other divine revealation!

I as a christian believe in Moses, Abraham, David and i believe in their Books and infact their Books are part of my Book which goes in line with the fact that God’s massage is unchanging and complete.
There are 2.2 billion Christians nowadays (30% of world population) that believe in the Bible which is translated into thousands of languages. This Bible was written over a period of 1600 years by more than 66 writers who lived in different era’s from different nationalities, backgrounds, languages and cultures!and yet is still the ONE book which speaks about one person and remains to be the number one book and the most popular book in the world! Isn’t that a miracle?
In the Old tastement, God called his people chis children and in the New tastement we became his children and he our father. In the Quran, you’re a distant SLAVE!!!!what a diffrence! There is no comaparison there my friend. I’m inviting to be a son while you are trying to drag me down to be a slave!

Christianity validates all God’s prophets and their books and offers the ultimate solution and the ultimate massge and the Qurans stands alone!!

Thanks man!

Comment by JAY — May 8, 2008 @ 8:11 pm
Dear WhyIslam,

I hope i’m making sense in my writtings and i’m thankfull for the opportunity to post my comments.I hope these comments get read and i ‘d love to hear answers to my many questions. Another problem i have with Islam is the Prophet of Islam whom according Islamic resourses and books, had relationships with demons and power of magic. He was under the influence of magic for a period that exeeded a year during his prophethood years in which parts of the Quran were being revealed! Moreover, he once had to be corrected and rebuked by God’s angel for letting Satan speak through him some satanic verses as being from God and those same verses could be found in the Quran today!!
He also had a demon that was a companion of his whom according to the prophet himself, had accepted Islam and became a Muslim!! The demon became muslim and made a deal with the prophet!! If you doubt any of these stries and facts;please dont hesitate, i will post where these stories are found from Islamic resources and the Quran itself…The prophet used to have seizures everytime he would confront God’s angel whom God sent to reveal the Quran to the Prophet!! Seizures, shivering and sweating when confronting God’s messenger?? That is rather odd reaction!!! I wonder then how would confronting demons be any different???

Thanks,

JAY

Comment by JAY — June 17, 2008 @ 11:58 pm